From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alex Sassmannshausen Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 11:44:57 +0200 Message-ID: <874l065qw6.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87blugg7dt.fsf@pobox.com> <20191016193005.rlxaqpwhtu46mebj@pelzflorian.localdomain> Reply-To: alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="164876"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.2 Cc: Andy Wingo To: guile-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 18 11:45:51 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iLOpR-000gcc-Mx for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 11:45:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37190 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLOpQ-0005EW-Dc for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 05:45:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48606) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLOoh-0004fd-WD for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 05:45:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLOog-0003mO-RQ for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 05:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]:55024) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLOog-0003ko-Ji for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 05:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id p7so5466749wmp.4 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 02:45:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:reply-to:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=kkI0BH0gBMFvHI6da99az03gGZtoIdUTrSJfspSlOsk=; b=o4nyr0Fd2rAfx6P3jx5mM5Gf33rS97WWxbp4An5vkFjX/CzA1g1UGrOg7FHZlj+yzf mhqJCjYpiXF8zDigbRgf+H0onz3loAD7PABDxsFRCRpXTZoKWzNzCdDAUVhMsiY4yfN9 pQyDvSAXd1ClyJ3N2Y+8aRaJqTpC3TMy+1S9p8zHdUun68/nMjpMTGrJZjV1X0/ex4Bf RXbbVr1Ige3n9nMkBKQKIoOA3DFhvWrwrmJVvjf5mx7oQexGjmuRTodgESu2uIeHJkMW SccpGrUJSYdl1slALeZuCXfgewsDYzcBMiEL4+Uinflhd0LZT2dKKdrpoTsDMgso7MtE thbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :reply-to:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=kkI0BH0gBMFvHI6da99az03gGZtoIdUTrSJfspSlOsk=; b=bH6QqFGm4kuqN1LEFqCs3dUZUkDAs/d1d7Rkz11YSj7w8V3N9Eb6nWpeDvzynhZDrP qNNt2jimrdG4wGBCRNyB3UnqcCE/nTXqcZ7suS2QDC3ug7DQkMPbgpB4jjXZh/+DUsc+ hhOjU7ELNJZZme7y8ryaFW9WkM368nBiZg2QRp+LqAHB6HsdfUczPDOhKu83NZKz64gs EyfzWOosLtWXKXm3xD74tO0kDOX1GmZIUTNGnXyEMLQ5/Cu+JjmMPc2Wh3onD95Y/26B k0BlKfypCdzK/gbIDZ79iFToNFZTMZVnXIH2APl8yGljjWMoZIVM0GkHgU6zSdERPcHh o8+w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXD3avEpyZOXpl7MLp5upDY4v7L/mTLXc5Cca2mIhti4n5CzBqQ AuFd1rQlOqwlg3nT8Eu5II0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqygH0XrEwUwUqaVlOn9U+I6inD476CD3mnkFrAxVaegkKv7MPShK7paLCFtSX72IUZ+v3+O6g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:2387:: with SMTP id m7mr6637996wma.137.1571391899806; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 02:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from watership ([2a02:a03f:3f97:fa00:5580:8b13:1704:d2b4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l7sm5060408wrv.77.2019.10.18.02.44.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 18 Oct 2019 02:44:59 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <20191016193005.rlxaqpwhtu46mebj@pelzflorian.localdomain> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::32c X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:20105 Archived-At: Hello, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) writes: > This is very sad. I appreciate the enormous time investments of all > of you for Guile. When you make a decision, I hope you understand the > other. > > Regards, > Florian Many incredibly thoughtful emails have been sent to the mailing list on this subject, and I will struggle to communicate ideas any more clearly than has been done so far. I have enormous respect for the work that RMS carried to bring Free Software, and indeed GNU, into the world. It is possible to recognise the great deeds of a person whilst realising they are flawed, like the rest of us; or that they have also done less than desirable things. It is possible to believe RMS has done great work, and to believe that maybe he is not the right person to lead the FSF or GNU. If you start a movement, you must realise that at some point you might find yourself no longer the leader of it. I believe that if different people, over a long period of time, keep expressing similar worries about a person, then we need to listen to those people. But all the above points are really only tangentially related to the present conversation. Here, we are concerned with the wonderful community that exists right now around Guile and Guix. And I want this community to continue to exist, and grow and retain its momentum. We are all responsible for the wonderful community we have here, and the way that this debate has taken place on these lists, when compared to others I have seen is testament to this. As for the disagreements between the past and present maintainers, I have enormous respect for all of you, and hope you can together come to an agreement on how to proceed. I do believe there is sufficient space in our community for different perspectives. We should always start from a commitment to doing what's right and to ensuring our space is welcoming to people from all walks of life. Best wishes, Alex