From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mikhail Kryshen Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 07:03:21 +0300 Message-ID: <874l05bcvq.fsf@home.localdomain> References: <87blugg7dt.fsf@pobox.com> <871rvbp7h7.fsf@e6230.localdomain> <875zkm5rqv.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="270045"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Notmuch/0.29.1 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/26.3 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: Andy Wingo To: alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com, guile-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 19 06:03:57 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iLfy9-00185m-6P for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 06:03:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48280 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLfy7-0008QG-G6 for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:03:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50762) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLfxr-0008Q5-PR for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:03:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLfxp-0004OZ-SM for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:03:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.kryshen.net ([2a01:6f0:ffff:302::de2b]:44244) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLfxp-0004LH-MP for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:03:37 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kryshen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC458315597; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 07:03:32 +0300 (MSK) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mail.kryshen.net EC458315597 In-Reply-To: <875zkm5rqv.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:6f0:ffff:302::de2b X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:20115 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Alex Sassmannshausen writes: > Hi Mikhail, > > Mikhail Kryshen writes: > >> Andy, >> >> If you've long had issues with RMS, then why do you still want to be >> with GNU? You don't have to participate in GNU to be part of the free >> software movement. Is it that you see GNU as an important platform for >> your political activism? Is it about donations? Identity? Pride? >> What is it so significant that it made you stoop to harassment and >> defamation? Or could it be that you act purely on emotion under >> influence of the widespread moral panic? > > Andy is doing what he believes is right, like so many other people in > this debate. Let's focus on finding a way to maintain the amazing > community around Guile and Guix, and to carry forward the spirit of GNU. > > Please don't impugn the character of others on this mailing list. Sorry for that. I admit, I got angry. But I still have a point, so let me distill it to the bare minimum of the following two propositions: 1. Defamation is morally wrong and socially unacceptable. 2. A group of GNU maintainers participated in defamation or at least endorsed it. Andy's message contains defamatory allegations. The "joint statement" (which is still present on guix.gnu.org) is vague, but its timing implies strong relation to the recent defamatory media campaign, and the signatories neither explained why they decided to do it now, nor acknowledged it as a mistake. Thus, I believe that the group of maintainers did a serious misconduct which undermines trust in them and discredits the community. And this has nothing to do with personality of RMS or his role in GNU. Believing that RMS is bad for GNU is not an excuse for such actions. -- Mikhail --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEEw6yVFU/UQfkLWikDzxz0c4HWsG4FAl2qiwoACgkQzxz0c4HW sG6MuQv8DwlbE244fodgQeB0anlX4P4vm6z2vZn/KQgAJupDE1VFuYX7fetWmkgX ADAaKZ8WaCd8EpzJ3jPRO1KTGbXYsmNBZDfzstc0PYVXwKjio/Rt1Nxe5HzW+V0y 3UEGKB2RRIl7w+Qx5N2Gr7J+MqjFtSwryB/KfO74Lz+TbB13vIBShuOaJ8joRZAj lUS9bw6sTReZmAWRyVskH24wYsEEE2toIbzH45Ckm+fb7mkGqtwFjGmcM1C44aRx m4YsZ0Md5/7BSOASV4yMQWgjUzxBooA0JUqiABL8ANp/iCugOY4Bgtf67NqWdc8c 94+yor4pIz7JgQ8SJ734TnGPB0Eu+Gfnv120QW+ma4wda7U+sl7fiZ1RjW61qk2+ ItWcKxPdU3Jruk+29O0EpzqwZ/wGLOACacx5iLtcn4GayCTnXIJKuqUo1wiFje+W JGLz1dzKJzDe+oZ8LC9A9brKZ40uD/KCMVf3Dz/xrvmt1IqZAhOk/N+s2lcwaX6w oFRKUbGh =xeQM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--