From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?=) Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: summer of code ideas Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:00:45 +0100 Message-ID: <8739mxsr5u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87pqq2vcnb.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3m2va6f.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1299589281 15877 80.91.229.12 (8 Mar 2011 13:01:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:01:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org To: Noah Lavine Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 08 14:01:16 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PwwXL-0001qL-8n for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:01:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37190 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PwwXH-0005oC-PM for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:01:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=38438 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PwwWu-0005nI-TR for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:00:49 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PwwWt-000865-RN for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:00:48 -0500 Original-Received: from solo.fdn.fr ([80.67.169.19]:38859) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PwwWt-00085u-Mw for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:00:47 -0500 Original-Received: from nixey (unknown [193.50.110.208]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: lcourtes) by smtp.fdn.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F5A744BB7; Tue, 8 Mar 2011 14:00:46 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 18 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vent=F4se?= an 219 de la =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0xEA52ECF4 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 83C4 F8E5 10A3 3B4C 5BEA D15D 77DD 95E2 EA52 ECF4 X-OS: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: (Noah Lavine's message of "Mon, 7 Mar 2011 17:37:22 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110013 (No Gnus v0.13) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 80.67.169.19 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:11829 Archived-At: Hello, Noah Lavine writes: >>> We talked about having a Scheme-based language that could compile to >>> both plain C and JIT, but decided that would make the VM too >>> complicated, >> >> Maybe I forgot to feed that thread, but I think it might be easier to >> have a high-level representation the VM opcodes as sexps (possibly a >> subset of Scheme), and then write the C files from that. >> >> Though the main difficulty is to find a sufficiently expressive way to >> write opcodes in. > > Oh dear. My impression was that we had decided to use a C parser. If > not, I think the hardest part of making this work would be making the > C output look nice. Libjit and C are such similar languages that > making the translator would be quite simple. Well I think Andy preferred parsing C code and generating whatever the JIT needs from that. My intuition is that doing it the other way around may be simpler and possibly more elegant, but I haven=E2=80=99t looked into= the details. Anyway, you=E2=80=99re the one doing the actual work, so if you find a solu= tion that works well for everyone, then you=E2=80=99re done. :-) > Also, after looking at the MELT project and the Modula-2 frontend, I'd > say they might be receptive to the idea of using a high-level language > to write parts of GCC. I think there=E2=80=99s no =E2=80=9Cthey=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94i.e., there are m= any hackers, and probably diverging views. In practice, MELT is still in a separate branch and isn=E2=80=99t used internally, though. Technically, there are a few issues with MELT: currently it requires both the source and build tree of GCC because of its tight integration with GCC=E2=80=99s internals (for instance it requires =E2=80=98gengtype=E2= =80=99.) This is just to illustrate that using GCC as a library may prove to be difficult. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.