From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andy Wingo Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: guild hall update Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:35:07 -0500 Message-ID: <8739bwycas.fsf@pobox.com> References: <87wre5jv0r.fsf@pobox.com> <87fwkt6ujn.fsf@ambire.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325608546 10119 80.91.229.12 (3 Jan 2012 16:35:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 16:35:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel To: Thien-Thi Nguyen Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 03 17:35:41 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ri7Ku-0004DS-9p for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 17:35:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42093 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ri7Kt-0000Z7-Qn for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:35:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:38858) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ri7Kr-0000Z2-9C for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:35:38 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ri7Kl-0001CP-GK for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:35:37 -0500 Original-Received: from a-pb-sasl-sd.pobox.com ([74.115.168.62]:65528 helo=sasl.smtp.pobox.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ri7Kl-0001CL-CV for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:35:31 -0500 Original-Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-pb-sasl-sd.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A482281D0; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:35:30 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=sasl; bh=Cci7MnJY7hj9IIPB1sfmIfV6K14=; b=MqJUlf 8Sb26sYCjor/Lfntd+yxGTb8c9zek6dBI73dCzDNA+bS//D3dOGYnRQ6igx1SpR4 aMJhUJ0CiHKDKDJ9u2gUA4C0CjTnW9qrW632CRahXyYJGMTdNtXMSOlSRxH1Wiey dQaugHQbIlGQ+WDDtB3wtBZueL7Cj85bnhTiw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; q=dns; s=sasl; b=Gp1bJhUx5fUKkSQM+h79q1w1Q3HLaBsx Oi89kgRZuuDUAzcVYwzDO1S0jESn2wrzSbaIjmBHcCdLxWkIRYc/n0OYzNMdMLmU dr8lf8Rcodb212gF4YNBbG/aOUQbpvDt3gvWtYeKp2ixMiK5rWHKw56feh0/O8z/ oPtfAng+jrw= Original-Received: from a-pb-sasl-sd.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by a-pb-sasl-sd.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D76681CF; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:35:30 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from badger (unknown [70.63.131.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-pb-sasl-sd.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6AE9C81CD; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:35:27 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87fwkt6ujn.fsf@ambire.localdomain> (Thien-Thi Nguyen's message of "Mon, 22 Aug 2011 22:49:32 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: F2B284EE-3628-11E1-BF4E-65B1DE995924-02397024!a-pb-sasl-sd.pobox.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-Received-From: 74.115.168.62 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:13237 Archived-At: On Mon 22 Aug 2011 16:49, Thien-Thi Nguyen writes: > I kind of dislike the "marked as a member of some group" meme, whether > expressed as "guild" or "sigil". Traditionally, guilds were irascibly > exclusive, subverting competition, introducing proprietary "extensions" > and "trade marks", and (ultimately) capturing and controlling the > prevalent regulatory regime. (Side note: For a contemporary example at > grander / graver scale, see U.S. SEC MUI memory holing.) It bothers me > that there is a "join and (only then you will) be cool" mindset at > all. I thought about this for a while, and considered other folks' input, and in the end went back to the Guildhall name. "Sigil" in modern days has too many connotations with crystals and "magic". I don't want to promote a "join and only then you will be cool" mindset, but I do think that this project is a social one: a tool, yes, but one that enables collective action. We definitely need to make sure we avoid the the exclusivity connotations of guilds, but I still (erroneously?) think we can avoid them, if we choose the right emphasis. Cheers, Andy -- http://wingolog.org/