From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Hemann Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: GRFI [was: The Guile junk drawer and a C plea] Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 15:42:42 -0400 Message-ID: <80bbaf88-feaa-4d25-be7a-9650e3ea52fc@Spark> References: <20240629002027.13853-1-richard@freakingpenguin.com> <20240629124128.hNhS2C00S3x6CSs01NhTmA@xavier.telenet-ops.be> <87tthbpqhu.fsf@web.de> <20240629202728.hWTS2C0033x6CSs01WTS7o@baptiste.telenet-ops.be> <4b15e468-5b36-46ba-82bd-42eb41bc9aa7@gmail.com> <557ebecd-8ea1-4717-a3a3-bf08b1114e78@lassi.io> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6684583c_3c37918c_2f3" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32759"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: guile-devel@gnu.org, Lassi Kortela Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 02 22:03:21 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sOjij-0008Io-2X for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 22:03:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOjiL-0003Zv-M8; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 16:02:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOjP2-00031U-Ok for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 15:43:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ua1-x930.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::930]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOjOz-0000wq-MS for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 15:42:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ua1-x930.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-8100eb38a99so259365241.2 for ; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 12:42:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1719949374; x=1720554174; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JjBzqh8E4viGevfE5LaxIg6x3nsr8xneAu6UnIG5lnI=; b=eeTGpfegXE/aKV0ZNfn7ddZyVJcMuBCbea61ilsLfbJXgMEEuhwmUS2WQq0Wm+cbD7 RrcbDXIXkq+i++vFiCQp6Il3mbSjAho9RSTpVMR3y+Unof2JsClZ0nmnf3oBypSyTzRv 1joM+NLNqLN3HwY4fWy0BU4abb1RHOw4XAj2vleihYC39k/SK8nM6rPACGUiyZqn/X0P Xdx2ba3dPn/PJ4eL8shr6vP4/jJ0HMgR+yZdkHdfK7aCju6C53hmklbNlXEMrAGwQ5h8 g8JW3S/3rhN/loEL2GpcIlxPfNj62jKEYTN1qJ99gL73aoiJY0+Ro9STTkgnv2em2Rnw nB6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1719949374; x=1720554174; h=mime-version:subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JjBzqh8E4viGevfE5LaxIg6x3nsr8xneAu6UnIG5lnI=; b=wLo5kCW4NXyKi/EU6Pb53KTXm/a6j33i7lx5Xxl3GW7dql58DzxurPKMEsnbg0c9lL E/KWJH2FyyNuPBAtf8m2e3fBYumo7jQ4pCYfI/FWkchsc0hDO6j7P3z0mouCGx36u+p/ zcaMgOHuB6OUf3O6IiNkZ1hu0Gld12QF04nv6awOS+vDOn51Uoca48cC5y4Meojsc+pQ cExpLx9f7Afef9kL2OgXgdCUnU7e9/DjJy7QeAzoWHvy1fsaKnFNUYikpsnGA+QqhDuF kko3rf4FyWFqGdHfOY8NBqNR+dIVTIvV6ydsBRZkmydLFaA9LiYV7tOmRBVTFlyvLuaR 329g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwLQ+e3htJlYj2FB6oN2PxSEyTAFN67KTTH4MR/9FXrz1CW2IiZ 0qd9U6bR4YMlhkmC2UnbA9axEZzQa27v3wjSrLlfbUTRWqf4PINNuz7EZR4A X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGkKCGWi8yKiQo/IqTr2Lziw/IdgzB5N6LLkScxkno1iQDbY2tsssfOHgLrQQwParcf3dteVg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:5121:b0:48f:40c1:3cd0 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-48faf06a656mr8062741137.12.1719949373649; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 12:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.121.2.64] (shunat236-121.shu.edu. [149.150.236.121]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-79d69295e93sm482341485a.59.2024.07.02.12.42.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Jul 2024 12:42:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <557ebecd-8ea1-4717-a3a3-bf08b1114e78@lassi.io> X-Readdle-Message-ID: 80bbaf88-feaa-4d25-be7a-9650e3ea52fc@Spark Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::930; envelope-from=jason.hemann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x930.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 02 Jul 2024 16:02:56 -0400 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:22538 Archived-At: --6684583c_3c37918c_2f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Was the GR=46I proposal intended to work around the difficulties posed by= a hard-fork of Guile (a la Python 2 vs. 3)=3F =5Bas discussed in prior t= hread=5D It seems to me that major breaking changes bring lots of downside, and I=E2= =80=99m not sure the immediate benefits would outweigh them. I think of the SR=46I process as soft-standardization across different im= plementations, though. So, I=E2=80=99m not sure I follow. Absent some maj= or language version split,=C2=A0=C2=A0what the GR=46I process would be =5F= for=5F=3F Best, =5BPS: You=E2=80=94yes you=E2=80=94should consider writing up and submitt= ing a paper to the upcoming Scheme Workshop=C2=A0https://icfp24.sigplan.o= rg/home/scheme-2024=C2=A0(July 18 deadline)=5D Jason Hemann Assistant Professor of Computer Science Seton Hall University On Jun 29, 2024 at 15:14 -0400, Lassi Kortela , wrote: > > How about a GR=46I site to deal with proposals to Guile=3F > > I advise against starting a GR=46I unless you can find plausible ways t= o > solve the known problems with the SR=46I process. In case you can solve= > these difficult problems which many smart people have failed to solve, > perhaps the new process could be somehow merged with SR=46I itself. > > Empirically, it seems that most schemers will not watch many inboxes. > Each separate design process will add its own inbox with subtly > different rules and customs. That's non-trivial cognitive load. > --6684583c_3c37918c_2f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Was the GR=46I proposal intended to work around the= difficulties posed by a hard-fork of Guile (a la Python 2 vs. 3)=3F =5Ba= s discussed in prior thread=5D

It seems to me that major breaking changes bring lots of downside, and I=E2= =80=99m not sure the immediate benefits would outweigh them.

I think of the SR=46I process as soft-standardization across different im= plementations, though. So, I=E2=80=99m not sure I follow. Absent some maj= or language version split,&=23160;&=23160;what the GR=46I process would b= e =5Ffor=5F=3F

Best,

=5BPS: You=E2=80=94yes you=E2=80=94should consider writing up and submitt= ing a paper to the upcoming Scheme Workshop&=23160;https://icf= p24.sigplan.org/home/scheme-2024&=23160;(July 18 deadline)=5D

Jason Hemann
Assistant Professor of Computer Science
Seton Hall University
On Jun 29, 2024 at 15:14 -0400, Las= si Kortela <lassi=40lassi.io>, wrote:
How about a GR=46I site to deal with propos= als to Guile=3F

I advise against starting a GR=46I unless you can find plausible ways to<= br /> solve the known problems with the SR=46I process. In case you can solve these difficult problems which many smart people have failed to solve, perhaps the new process could be somehow merged with SR=46I itself.
=
Empirically, it seems that most schemers will not watch many inboxes.
Each separate design process will add its own inbox with subtly
different rules and customs. That's non-trivial cognitive load.

--6684583c_3c37918c_2f3--