From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Blake Shaw Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH v3] docs/match: pattern matcher example makeover Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2023 20:10:36 +0700 Message-ID: <7zfsbmlwnj.fsf@reproduciblemedia.com> References: <20230201130930.6624-1-blake@reproduciblemedia.com> <9725d8d9-faf2-3306-94ae-209086aa5a82@telenet.be> <20230202144720.306d1bb3@aicha> <7zk00zkoqc.fsf@reproduciblemedia.com> <878rhfx8ca.fsf@systemreboot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39772"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: David Pirotte , Maxime Devos , guile-devel@gnu.org To: Arun Isaac Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 03 14:14:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pNvtX-000ACO-6d for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 14:14:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNvt6-0000ff-4b; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 08:13:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNvt4-0000fU-Vb for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 08:13:54 -0500 Original-Received: from out-238.mta0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:1004:224b::ee]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNvt1-0004sZ-V6 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 08:13:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=reproduciblemedia.com; s=key1; t=1675430026; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=HQ4aIKN4zwvs0SgWZblYKRsIdixiDTouMWQYVUWPAyA=; b=oBexT96f6V3lPY72QBBBL8zAJg9XUiAgI8WZo7+UhHBXgI2D9XZ15pu92Q2XdNDCGUjdY9 M/eDMX+osEMCYrNGQXN5iDzKk+keKnP//MbDccZXa44QgGRVe1K/j+s5lcl/yAqblIHRrT zBm5ZJ3rPN+CUIj8+zAvkRngbAoR/jc= X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. In-reply-to: <878rhfx8ca.fsf@systemreboot.net> X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:41d0:1004:224b::ee; envelope-from=blake@reproduciblemedia.com; helo=out-238.mta0.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:21676 Archived-At: Arun Isaac writes: > Hi Blake, > >> Well, these conventions can be found throughout the gamut of scheme >> literature going back to the 80s, and some of the largest scheme >> projects, such as Chez, Racket, etc. employ them. So if you're >> getting into Scheme, you'll necessarily encounter them, and if you >> haven't been made aware that brackets are syntactic sugar for parens >> in Scheme, or if that doesn't become apparent with some quick repl >> experimentation, you've probably jumped into pattern matching a bit >> too quickly. >> >> But overall, it seems the objections against the Indiana style here >> are primarily concerned with individual, current user/contributor >> preferences, rather than out of a concern for the target audience, >> which are newcomers. > > I don't think I agree. When I was a newcomer to guile and was reading > the sxml-match documentation in the manual for the first time, I found > it very confusing that there were square brackets. At that point, I > understood match but was confounded into thinking that sxml-match was > completely different due to the square brackets. Finally, when I > understood, I contributed a patch making everything round > parentheses. https://issues.guix.gnu.org/30920 > > I'd say a typical newcomer is not familiar with the gamut of scheme > literature going back to the 80s. I certainly wasn't, and still am not > to be honest. Point taken, but I'd remark that I didn't mean that newcomers should be familiar with existing literature, but rather that its common convention with roots going way back, rather than an ad-hoc notation. > > Cheers! > Arun