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* Re: Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
@ 2020-03-25 12:11 dsmich
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: dsmich @ 2020-03-25 12:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Duy Nguyen'; +Cc: 'guile-devel@gnu.org'

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> From: "Duy Nguyen" 

>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 5:24 AM Mike Gran  wrote:
> >
 > > In a fit of pique, I pushed a new branch of Guile to the repo
 > > called wip-replace-ltdl-with-gmodule. It replaces the dynamic
linking
 > > library libltdl from libtool with the analagous library GModule
 > > from GLib. It was remarkably easy, and, after a cursory test
 > > I was surprised to find that it seems to be working.
> 
 > So knee-jerk reaction, what does GModule do better than libltdl? Or
 > perhaps why is libltdl "bad"?

Hopefully it will return something more detailed than "file not found"
for the many error cases that libtool lumps into that one error
message.

-Dale



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
  2020-03-27 13:27     ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-03-27 17:03       ` Mike Gran
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mike Gran @ 2020-03-27 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Ludovic Courtès, guile-devel

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:27:57PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > I think we should either fix ltdl (probably less work than porting Guile
> > to GModule, but also less exciting) or have a very basic wrapper around
> > dlopen instead of using ltdl (I think Andy had made experiments in that
> > direction.)
> 
> If you drop ltdl, the MinGW port of Guile will be broken, as dlopen
> there is not guaranteed to exist (it exists in one flavor of MinGW,
> but not in the other, which is the most popular one, AFAIK).
> 
> So my recommendation would be to fix ltdl.
> 

I must be said that the libtool mailing list appears extremely
conservative with respect to change.

I haven't evaluated it on a technical level, but I do see small
patches in GModule to handle things like UWP, while the last technical
change to libltdl was probably around 2011.

If GModule is up to date, it looks like there are only three families
of dynamic linking that remain: dlopen for UNIX-Likes, AIX's dlopen of
AIX-format .ar archives, and Microsoft's LoadLibrary.  MacOS's dyld is
gone.

Maybe when I have a moment, I'll strip GLib from GModule to see what
it looks like, or perhaps see what new information GModule contains
that could be flowed down to ltdl.  Not that I expect Guile to
necessarily incorporate it, but, because I find it interesting.

But, I don't see myself as finding any fun in interacting with the
libtool mailing list, so I probably won't do that.

Regards,
Mike Gran




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
  2020-03-27 12:01   ` Ludovic Courtès
@ 2020-03-27 13:27     ` Eli Zaretskii
  2020-03-27 17:03       ` Mike Gran
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-03-27 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: guile-devel

> From: Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org>
> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 13:01:38 +0100
> 
> I’m very much tired of “file not found” :-), but I don’t think Guile
> should depend on GLib, which is quite big.

FWIW, I agree.

> I think we should either fix ltdl (probably less work than porting Guile
> to GModule, but also less exciting) or have a very basic wrapper around
> dlopen instead of using ltdl (I think Andy had made experiments in that
> direction.)

If you drop ltdl, the MinGW port of Guile will be broken, as dlopen
there is not guaranteed to exist (it exists in one flavor of MinGW,
but not in the other, which is the most popular one, AFAIK).

So my recommendation would be to fix ltdl.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
  2020-03-24 22:24 ` Mike Gran
  2020-03-25  9:33   ` Duy Nguyen
@ 2020-03-27 12:01   ` Ludovic Courtès
  2020-03-27 13:27     ` Eli Zaretskii
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2020-03-27 12:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guile-devel

Hello!

Mike Gran <spk121@yahoo.com> skribis:

> In a fit of pique, I pushed a new branch of Guile to the repo
> called wip-replace-ltdl-with-gmodule.  It replaces the dynamic linking
> library libltdl from libtool with the analagous library GModule
> from GLib.  It was remarkably easy, and, after a cursory test
> I was surprised to find that it seems to be working.
>
> GModule itself is a standalone library, but, I think it depends
> on GLib.  It might be possible to remove that dependency without
> much difficulty, but unfortunately, then you would be left with
> another library to maintain.

Fun!

I’m very much tired of “file not found” :-), but I don’t think Guile
should depend on GLib, which is quite big.

I think we should either fix ltdl (probably less work than porting Guile
to GModule, but also less exciting) or have a very basic wrapper around
dlopen instead of using ltdl (I think Andy had made experiments in that
direction.)

Thanks,
Ludo’.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* RE: Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
@ 2020-03-25 14:58 dsmich
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: dsmich @ 2020-03-25 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Mike Gran'; +Cc: 'guile-devel@gnu.org'

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Looks like (based on ldd output) that it depends on libglib,
libpthread, and libpcre beyond all that libltdl also uses.

-Dale



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
  2020-03-25  9:33   ` Duy Nguyen
@ 2020-03-25 12:41     ` Mike Gran
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mike Gran @ 2020-03-25 12:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Duy Nguyen; +Cc: guile-devel

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 04:33:50PM +0700, Duy Nguyen wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 5:24 AM Mike Gran <spk121@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all-
> >
> > In a fit of pique, I pushed a new branch of Guile to the repo
> > called wip-replace-ltdl-with-gmodule.  It replaces the dynamic linking
> > library libltdl from libtool with the analagous library GModule
> > from GLib.  It was remarkably easy, and, after a cursory test
> > I was surprised to find that it seems to be working.
> >
> > GModule itself is a standalone library, but, I think it depends
> > on GLib.  It might be possible to remove that dependency without
> > much difficulty, but unfortunately, then you would be left with
> > another library to maintain.
> >
> > Anyway, you may find it amusing, at least.
> 
> So knee-jerk reaction, what does GModule do better than libltdl? Or
> perhaps why is libltdl "bad"?

Technically, GModule and libltdl are quite similar.  But
1. Libtool hasn't made a release in 6 years.  For something so
   often used in GNU, it seems to be quite neglected.
2. Its default error message "file not found" doesn't always mean
   that the file is not found.

I haven't used GModule with Guile enough to decide if it is
technically better, yet.  But, it is updated more often.

-Mike Gran



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
  2020-03-24 22:24 ` Mike Gran
@ 2020-03-25  9:33   ` Duy Nguyen
  2020-03-25 12:41     ` Mike Gran
  2020-03-27 12:01   ` Ludovic Courtès
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Duy Nguyen @ 2020-03-25  9:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mike Gran; +Cc: guile-devel

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 5:24 AM Mike Gran <spk121@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all-
>
> In a fit of pique, I pushed a new branch of Guile to the repo
> called wip-replace-ltdl-with-gmodule.  It replaces the dynamic linking
> library libltdl from libtool with the analagous library GModule
> from GLib.  It was remarkably easy, and, after a cursory test
> I was surprised to find that it seems to be working.
>
> GModule itself is a standalone library, but, I think it depends
> on GLib.  It might be possible to remove that dependency without
> much difficulty, but unfortunately, then you would be left with
> another library to maintain.
>
> Anyway, you may find it amusing, at least.

So knee-jerk reaction, what does GModule do better than libltdl? Or
perhaps why is libltdl "bad"?

>
> Regards,
> Mike Gran
>
>


-- 
Duy



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule
       [not found] <20200324222429.GA2587085.ref@spikycactus.com>
@ 2020-03-24 22:24 ` Mike Gran
  2020-03-25  9:33   ` Duy Nguyen
  2020-03-27 12:01   ` Ludovic Courtès
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mike Gran @ 2020-03-24 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guile-devel

Hello all-

In a fit of pique, I pushed a new branch of Guile to the repo
called wip-replace-ltdl-with-gmodule.  It replaces the dynamic linking
library libltdl from libtool with the analagous library GModule
from GLib.  It was remarkably easy, and, after a cursory test
I was surprised to find that it seems to be working.

GModule itself is a standalone library, but, I think it depends
on GLib.  It might be possible to remove that dependency without
much difficulty, but unfortunately, then you would be left with
another library to maintain.

Anyway, you may find it amusing, at least.

Regards,
Mike Gran




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-03-27 17:03 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-03-25 12:11 Replace ltdl with GLib's GModule dsmich
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-03-25 14:58 dsmich
     [not found] <20200324222429.GA2587085.ref@spikycactus.com>
2020-03-24 22:24 ` Mike Gran
2020-03-25  9:33   ` Duy Nguyen
2020-03-25 12:41     ` Mike Gran
2020-03-27 12:01   ` Ludovic Courtès
2020-03-27 13:27     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-03-27 17:03       ` Mike Gran

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