From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: BCG Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Ideas for a Guile tutorial to go with the new site Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:45:10 -0400 Message-ID: <5424e6a85a38f4b4ee11120d05a9938d@smtp.hushmail.com> References: <87k2qkjh74.fsf@dustycloud.org> <69725d37e4da310143317b42e5cb35b1@openmailbox.org> <99386b9819329acfaad40d03deef0892@hypermove.net> <878u6ykefz.fsf@dustycloud.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445381426 17516 80.91.229.3 (20 Oct 2015 22:50:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:50:26 +0000 (UTC) To: guile-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 21 00:50:15 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZofjQ-0007gQ-Dz for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 00:50:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48354 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZofjP-0002XW-A3 for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:50:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56935) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zofeo-0002EO-MV for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:45:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zofee-0007Uw-J7 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:45:19 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com ([65.39.178.134]:50900) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zofee-0007Uj-CI for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:45:16 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 67E4EA01DE for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:45:14 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=hushmail.com; h=date:from:to:subject; s=hush; bh=GIjmAJNoKowtTmmhQ+t96WHOKLQOLLySCQt74jOWkeY=; b=tMxNgBEnkx3BpE3oPwG6DSKsgOn4BqF6Kea18cN7h/3O6uhz8uwu+cGl4gARwiI8ecTx92wAKngkzeWr2CFwcf4A6/J5+fScqm9n4O0seMJGgOLIEgmhFLQK73VBPp/jfuegmiZgWFLJNJS6tiBxfw6orZ7Nfm+j/VMxgtcC85LMhbR9sBuQjmf1z/aXvNwwzP6G5SsD4Jso8dPebaytSTAju20tjmifJApBwfDwlevM+fTCoTw+C2m9QUDaUNWAMI7aM/9YaAfHczxEbZKQkxdftdan7EK0VsFi2cKGjTB6dawablx5sPaZ/RoCeza0NaImRYnMUEjqH4JPwlqN3Q== Original-Received: from smtp.hushmail.com (w9.hushmail.com [65.39.178.29]) by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:45:14 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.8.0 In-Reply-To: <878u6ykefz.fsf@dustycloud.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 65.39.178.134 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:17949 Archived-At: On 10/19/2015 12:29 PM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > Amirouche Boubekki writes: > >> To the contrary I think it's not a good idea to start upfront the >> tutorial with which editor should be used is a good way to loose half of >> the readers, because they will feel more uncomfortable and not up to the >> task. To be useful emacs requires one 'Getting Started' tutorial in >> itself. Or anykind of setup for that matter. The tutorial should go as >> quickly as possible to the matter and start with coding. >> >> I started a tutorial at http://hypermove.net/. I don't introduce >> readline until the user knows what the REPL is. Part 1 is all done in >> REPL. I subtly introduce emacs as a good choice for an editor in part 2 >> which is done in an editor. But doesn't enforce it. > Okay, sorry if I wasn't being clear... my goal in that section would be > to encourage everyone who *isn't already an emacs user* to pick up a > simple editor and know how to use that with Guile, but them give them a > brief tip that they want to look into Emacs + Geiser once they've dived > in a bit more deeply. > > I don't think this section needs to be too long. I agree it should not > be overwhelming. > Personally I would appreciate a not-so-brief tip. Most resources on the web about coding in scheme seem to claim that emacs is the best environment for it, but rarely go into the reasoning about why or provide a focused way to get started with it. I'd be happy to try out those tools, but it hardly is worth it to me to slog through the emacs tutorial just to see if I like whatever advantages it may have for coding Scheme. After so many years of vi muscle memory I just can't find justification to slow down my productivity and learn emacs... but I wouldn't mind doing it just for Guile coding where I'm not really productive yet anyways - especially if there was getting started guide focused on that with pointers to other resources for a deeper dive if I like it. Even if I didn't end up switching to emacs for everything, I may find that I want to use it just for Scheme... just like I fire up Eclipse when I want to work on Java, but I don't bother using Eclipse for anything else It doesn't seem like a suggestion for a development environment should distract too much from a tutorial, but maybe that is too much to expect when your audience includes hackers. ;) Just my opinion, which is worth what you paid for it. -- Ben