From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: MSavoritias Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: The Guile junk drawer and a C plea Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 13:53:12 +0300 Message-ID: <4d9d9c2e-0830-4267-b8e5-1a50cb815508@msavoritias.me> References: <20240629002027.13853-1-richard@freakingpenguin.com> <87h6co21qv.fsf@laura> <87r0bsxpoe.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13612"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: guile-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 17 12:53:57 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2IH-0003KV-1b for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:53:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2Hq-0002hs-Q9; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 06:53:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2Hp-0002bH-4w for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 06:53:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.webarch.email ([81.95.52.48]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sU2Hm-0002wP-Q6 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 06:53:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 9AEDD1A82521 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 11:53:16 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=msavoritias.me; s=20210930; t=1721213597; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-language:in-reply-to:references; bh=L8/OfZBBsCObDXJ7PR/g3xuGwHgP9QAO/ItVGb2aHSI=; b=jhz1TSi2vuE/jju8MNmLc+rNLWi5K+sVQWqM+A/UHI40h3cXZmNq8GAkvYx/TSFlJvG+20 xgQc2kopulUqRyUitNSp7tc4g42zyO2UoD2CXT9FZktT9P6+Rqf4kpRbAum8eNyuV4RHIM poGPwKSwets698BOQF/ekCHUdH2CJpy5QgFIervFxavNC35LuDbkQKj7oYgZe1DpcIjxV4 XPFIVSHz80Np703RLEGfGiFBHw/8tcY7zPn99tAc9LUP3sUj+rDTfGSHsGqOae/ogWxG8E 2UaMkJNsOtoJfNMQSQn71I2v7vxt47HuDo4UeGjOK+Ab72m4hdzv00gsO9s2Lg== Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87r0bsxpoe.fsf@web.de> X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.95.52.48; envelope-from=email@msavoritias.me; helo=mail.webarch.email X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:22576 Archived-At: Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide kirjoitti 17.7.2024 klo 13.45: > Olivier Dion writes: > >> On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, Mikael Djurfeldt wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> As has been spoken about here previously, I suggest that we >>> design a new module hierarchy, introduce aliases for module bindings, and >>> still supply the old module hierarchy during a few years for backward >>> compatibility. >> In the name of discoverability for new users, this must be done. >> Aliasing (ice-9 *) to (guile *) for avoiding the "what's that none >> standard ice-9 library?". > I remember wondering about that exactly once; never forgot the name > afterwards. > > As long as ice-9 is kept, I would not mind an alias, but as long as > deprecation is on the table, I do object, because subsequent removal > would break a lot of working code and working tutorials. > > Working code that needs no maintenance and would likely not receive any, > so it would just get broken and stay broken, driving people away from > Guile. I mean deprecation doesn't mean it has to be removed immediately. There will be some time before it is actually removed. We can even push it to Guile 4. Given a long timeline i doubt older programs would be advised to be used or even work with recent guile. Given the rest of the cleaning discussion and any other breaking changes that is. >> Also (srfi srfi-N) with something meaninful >> for humans that don't want to lookup srfi.schemers.org or keep a >> cheatsheet on their desk. e.g., (srfi srfi-1) => (srfi list) or >> something like that. > SRFI already suggests optional names, but you can use any name: > > (import (srfi :1)) ;; works > (import (srfi :1 lists)) ;; works > (import (srfi :1 awesome-feature)) ;; also works, but maybe should warn > > Though this is not supported by use-modules (yet?): > > (use-modules (srfi srfi-1)) ;; works > (use-modules (srfi srfi-1 lists)) ;; error > (use-modules (srfi :1)) ;; error > (use-modules (srfi :1 lists)) ;; error > > The correct step™ there would be to validate the name used in import > after the number against a list of accepted names. > > If we were to use (srfi list), this would break the possibility to have > another srfi for lists (which is why SRFI does not do that). > > Best wishes, > Arne