From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Neil Van Dyke Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 22:11:16 -0400 Message-ID: <401574cf-a955-6cbf-de1c-49549e2b9751@neilvandyke.org> References: <87blugg7dt.fsf@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="91659"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: guile-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 17 06:49:58 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iKxjZ-000Nht-Dj for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 06:49:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33426 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iKxjY-0004xI-37 for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 00:49:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48908) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iKvOh-0003xC-9n for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 22:20:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iKvOf-0002bI-VC for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 22:20:15 -0400 Original-Received: from yuxari.pair.com ([209.68.5.202]:20996) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iKvOf-0002Yk-IJ for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 22:20:13 -0400 Original-Received: from yuxari.pair.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yuxari.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 535903F866 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 22:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (uttu.pair.com [209.68.4.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by yuxari.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3BB573F7DE for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 22:11:17 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87blugg7dt.fsf@pobox.com> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.68.5.202 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 00:49:25 -0400 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:20089 Archived-At: Dear fellow Guile people, I'm a long-time libre software and Scheme person, who recently=20 subscribed to the Guile lists.=C2=A0 After so long away from Guile, I was= =20 very happy to return and see an active developer community around it.=C2=A0= I=20 appreciate everyone's labor-of-love efforts here, in some of the best=20 spirit of libre software. I'm troubled to hear, in the last month or so, some concerns that have=20 been discouraging people in libre software, including Guile. I've long=20 been aware of some ways people have been alienated from libre software,=20 but not of some of the more discouraging things I've heard recently. Discouragement tends to mean losing people.=C2=A0 One of our primary goal= s is=20 the opposite of losing people -- welcoming and gaining the collective=20 benefits of *many more* people, participating and contributing. Being welcoming is a continual learning process, for all of us. Like=20 many topics, the more I learn, I realize the less I knew.=C2=A0 It's very= =20 humbling.=C2=A0 What I think we can do is embrace that humility -- to ask= , to=20 listen, and to try.=C2=A0 (I don't claim to be at all good at this,=20 personally; only that it seems to be a very constructive aspiration or=20 guideline, to try to remember.) I'd also like to propose that we try to extend that humility to=20 supporting others, as we all continually learn from mistakes. Making it=20 safe/permissible to recognize, learn from, and correct mistakes seems=20 part of a healthy environment.=C2=A0 We're all human, built on learning f= rom=20 mistakes, and it's OK.=C2=A0 Some situations might eventually prove to be= =20 "irreconcilable", but we should try to consider the possibilities,=20 perhaps with a touch of aspirational idealism and creativity, and=20 considering the good that might come from each possibility we can=20 imagine, before we decide which paths to pursue. I hope that everyone currently involved with Guile will continue to be=20 involved, not get discouraged and leave -- even as we all continue=20 figuring out how to be more welcoming to everyone, and figuring out how=20 to correct some past alienation of people, which I think has also harmed=20 us collectively. Thank you, and best regards to everyone.