From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: MSavoritias Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Name of the standard library Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2024 10:15:14 +0300 Message-ID: <26be9945-cd09-4268-825d-c35ba296a25f@msavoritias.me> References: <20240629002027.13853-1-richard@freakingpenguin.com> <87h6co21qv.fsf@laura> <87r0bsxpoe.fsf@web.de> <4d9d9c2e-0830-4267-b8e5-1a50cb815508@msavoritias.me> <87a5ifyd0g.fsf@web.de> <20240719104617.pLmG2C00D4SnA1G01LmG1n@andre.telenet-ops.be> <87wmlgkyix.fsf@web.de> <15398dda-cb3e-4195-b2f8-263a59a73c68@lassi.io> <8734o4kte6.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14433"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cc: Attila Lendvai , Maxime Devos , Greg Troxel , "guile-devel@gnu.org" To: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , Lassi Kortela Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 21 09:16:19 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sVQnr-0003YO-Ju for guile-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2024 09:16:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sVQnI-00078k-9x; Sun, 21 Jul 2024 03:15:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sVQnG-00078C-Vv for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2024 03:15:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.webarch.email ([81.95.52.48]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sVQnF-00089J-7v for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2024 03:15:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 14B301A82C84; Sun, 21 Jul 2024 08:15:16 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=msavoritias.me; s=20210930; t=1721546128; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-language:in-reply-to:references; bh=MxI5cCO50C4R1pixoXZRTclLgCtS4nVrWXvOaj6AS2M=; b=mX8KU3+OsnRIJzCvw2BnHdMFf/JENprDf/LsZAQizXkec014lf8+M/0kr5r3hk9K+zL/lP u01l2aUhKouXfB1esLO/vTHu63FkLYfQmH/Y3xbbg7U6KppEvlTdEsMdOpVhPj8renCNFI SWCeAmCj7bDrR0ZmxFqRz7+08oWEAjnX+NrHuEkpjINu93MdigSOa5Q9xuTZZo9Cn1fNeC c3RYsyeqXbO5CcPO/nCtPY0xJcp/KAadZL6zkJD/X1KaR1YmSpLRF0OuxkCwc2rFst9Ec7 dMiDEZfPHQf7eHSzVWEAoFAAi8vUQu3TV1Cyel6HYdQLWBrRva78E/mU80A+XQ== Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <8734o4kte6.fsf@web.de> X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.95.52.48; envelope-from=email@msavoritias.me; helo=mail.webarch.email X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.devel:22620 Archived-At: Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide kirjoitti 20.7.2024 klo 17.52: > Lassi Kortela writes: > >>> It would be easy to state in more places "the standard library of guile >>> is called ice-9 (see [history])". >> With no disrespect intended -- I understand it's a joke that was funny >> at one time -- "the standard library of Guile is called ice-9" sounds >> like "the unit of mass is called footballs". If so, why would a smart >> newbie learn more? > I did. > > Did you not? > > (I know that this is a paradoxical question; I’m pointing to it, because > *we actually do not know*, so maybe we should refrain from discussing > the hypothetical smart newbie when all of us who are here would by > definition not match that description) > > I actually liked that name — and still like it. Keep in mind that being > professional quality doesn’t require being teflon-proof naming. Python > includes `import this` and `import antigravity`. Because exposing ones > humanity isn’t a problem. Just a note here, I am that newbie :) And guile is much easier than whatever inside joke "ice-9" is. And no I don't need to "prove" myself by going through learning whatever ice-9 is. We should make it easier to learn guile over time. I strongly disagree forcing newbies to go through the same things we did just to make a point. Regards, MSavoritias > > But on the topic of (guile ...) as name: I’m not sure whether (guile > ...) is better. Because what then is (language ...)? What are (oop ...) > (sxml ...) and (web ...)? > > Should all of these move into (guile ...)? Or should we provide the > modules without prefix? What should then actually move into (guile ...)? > > > I didn’t think of these before, because I didn’t start by looking at > existing code tree. Which was a mistake. These make it more dubious for > me whether a (guile ...) prefix is a good idea at all. Just aliasing > ice-9 would give the false impression that (web ...) and (language ...) > aren’t guile. > > > Best wishes, > Arne