From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Gran Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: conflicts in the gnu project now affect guile Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 18:40:22 -0700 Message-ID: <20191017014022.GA6371@spikycactus.attlocal.net> References: <87blugg7dt.fsf@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="38296"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org To: Andy Wingo Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 17 03:41:02 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iKumk-0009om-Jp for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 03:41:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55068 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iKumj-00029U-Hy for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 21:41:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39915) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iKumK-00029B-Po for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 21:40:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iKumJ-0001y2-ND for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 21:40:36 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic317-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.66.147]:40385) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iKumJ-0001xD-F8 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 21:40:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1571276433; bh=xU+Is9ZcU6dzyIYcUEhVYvGMCYc7ApuUi+ndkQSED5A=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=ffHmy9Ud1v9oOXwE6joiMkIv3bW1l2QPJeGx6N6u9Lp0HLAit8QadpcBGjCoXY6GUkQkKAwvfL2D6y1b20T46fr51zG/xELxV0jtI9VjX5zbdu3XdF9kQdnmbLxPw3GBNaF3iIIP0ErO3ZGqt4zHH3TSNo35JdFdTtYZfMnT2OUeDJ/tXEmoHK1MA8ClUXQL1O+/wcOdPdP4XEhv+btzK+EhTctnmWwsN0K3ud2dMftxaBfDVttT+03OU5peug82KJyZZLsfs2yIs+5T1JFbX2vJEhsASejr3vNUlJE+ppGP9Vs9VUgO145Vr/EuGnXZmwuTfkqwFCIDeyhF+9ClDw== X-YMail-OSG: Pjrxpx4VM1kJrHv4o9exO.OkaD26iuDWtqtBp0k_R2vUGtZLLP3CRoPY9CBpU8d TnKlehw2JQ84ks6FFHjx2o3r240idIK86Zo9sEB6WZeQsiAwOpRVNlvcz4f1QTiU2zAAprrfH3T_ c4tDTlHIk0MzlgqxYmoxS7lWRbkrnNQ1bfZCms0hjbbi7PlPpAYCBzF2rkOYXNoY3VH3EVyM5fD8 rL0TbJ.LE6lg0JsHdcHEraXpmh6XIVSy0bIA.Ig4B1gtRydeD19iIKGgEfI6A90lSSjcmzKM_.U6 4adlCQQzPP06.rYkAWwxo9rTXYi7TNNTtXxRfcd9eeicJX7rXwYekSGUtWVYuDfk1FzvxL2rkxn3 LC2fRBMXcXsrc8seLBC7obt..BOW0o74RMi4s03mQpXbbZQ6N5dLvQwuIP3kqvL5KHb.hffL3deb 282sVbzQ5zvpe5xe2Y8o5gxNSbpf5xw062_F4kO_YL22OPBNw4uk13T4TmFBcpchtdcK8sU_caH9 BfGqhmTuc0pGJB77FWqbW4PDkX1hTgRjbYWD3YMAdHHEKLUzyROS.2x9vSbWeYgZAxvIg.3Wex7L MR.lxSG6fqUZF8nLorJ0ZqZyqMDLpBqA7BzE6Sne34VuWDPQn.P.yRpA.btVMM2ClOp7Vc_Rcdra bOi8SrOCcBipdci5szgpIeKMh6e.7d9vmTpjQyC1NXLDNmhgrmZwPnfYHgP3UjYb3WfaMkvXR4vF fLHl2RV4CfWVu9VADg.qC9Pe12guJZxX3nf9HG.A0ohHDrhUSCVsw4wQNSKZsFJSlLvM06If.Use jIeO.VKB5.NknZYxiuMGhVmY89FO40A5vmo93uUcQM Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 01:40:33 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp430.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e9a249abeb403631cb048ab21fe31cd7; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 01:40:32 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87blugg7dt.fsf@pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 98.137.66.147 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:20088 Archived-At: On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 03:14:06PM +0200, Andy Wingo wrote: > Hello all, > > In the last few weeks, a conversation among GNU maintainers that has > been simmering for years burst into public. For a while it resubmerged > into private GNU lists, but now it has resurfaced to affect the Guile > project. I did read the whole of this email and looked at some of the links. My big surprise about recent events is how much people still care about the GNU brand identity. I believe it to be a relic and a bit of a historical curiosity. I'm surprised at how impassioned this debate has become. It is good how some believe that GNU is worth saving. So GNU, the brand, must mean something to y'all. I know what it is *supposed* to mean. I hope y'all work it out. I've met a few of you, and you seem nice. > Perhaps this moment is an opportunity, to see where the Guile community > stands. In that spirit I invite Guile community members to weigh in on > the issue. What do you think about Guile's continued relationship with > GNU? What about its relationship with RMS? Finally, what would you > like to see happen regarding the future of Guile? GNU Guile is, for me, a weekend pastime. The people on the project seem alright. I've learned some programming tricks. It is cool that sometimes stuff I wrote gets used. It is cool that it has a bit of status to it, and that via my association with Guile, I got to give a FOSDEM talk on games. There have been a couple of dispiriting interactions back in the day that made me disappear for months at a time, but, mostly positive compared to other volunteer groups I've worked with. If it remains a fun place to hang, I may keep throwing in my rare and random contibutions. If it doesn't, I won't. I am not discomfited by RMS's existence or association with GNU, or his alleged skeeziness. Never having been to Boston or having met RMS or any other GNU or FSF employee, I have no idea who does paid work for GNU or the FSF or what they do all day, really. For me it is just an descriptive adjective for a type of orthodoxy, like 'Dogme 95' for film, or 'organic' for food. And it is the orthodoxy that matters. Regards, Mike Gran