From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: ng0 Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user,gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: Website translations with Haunt Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 22:29:49 +0000 Message-ID: <20171209222949.2swclhnlz6kmtj5a@abyayala> References: <20171209180619.GA10254@floriannotebook.localdomain> <20171209181529.xzpfpjl4y4ugrqhv@abyayala> <20171209210857.GA1064@floriannotebook.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uqomxd3r24al2ynr" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512858642 436 195.159.176.226 (9 Dec 2017 22:30:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 22:30:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Guile User , guile-devel To: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 09 23:30:37 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eNndk-0008Fr-GM for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Dec 2017 23:30:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42746 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eNndo-0001eC-EO for guile-user@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Dec 2017 17:30:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59900) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eNndM-0001ci-W6 for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Dec 2017 17:30:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eNndJ-0002Fi-5a for guile-user@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Dec 2017 17:30:13 -0500 Original-Received: from aibo.runbox.com ([91.220.196.211]:57980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eNndI-0002BX-Pg; Sat, 09 Dec 2017 17:30:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [10.9.9.212] (helo=mailfront12.runbox.com) by mailtransmit03.runbox with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eNndF-0007vj-VD; Sat, 09 Dec 2017 23:30:06 +0100 Original-Received: from dslb-092-073-183-021.092.073.pools.vodafone-ip.de ([92.73.183.21] helo=localhost) by mailfront12.runbox.com with esmtpsa (uid:892961 ) (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) id 1eNnd0-0007KL-Ux; Sat, 09 Dec 2017 23:29:51 +0100 Mail-Followup-To: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" , Guile User , guile-devel Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20171209210857.GA1064@floriannotebook.localdomain> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 91.220.196.211 X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.user:14332 gmane.lisp.guile.devel:19403 Archived-At: --uqomxd3r24al2ynr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) transcribed 2.4K bytes: > On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 06:15:29PM +0000, ng0 wrote: > > Hey Florian, > >=20 > > interesting work. I opened a bug a very long time ago for Guix, > > and the content applied to Guile (as well as to the project > > I initiated (infotropique) and very likely many other Haunt > > using websites like Haunt itself, 8sync, etc). > >=20 > > I've seen the first versions of this a while back in the code > > for your website, I'll check out the changes soon, exciting work! > > >=20 > Oh, thank you. :) Some code is not clean and more proof-of-concept. >=20 > > My idea was a reimplementation of prep (a text format and html document > > generator that is capable to include multiple languages in its source > > files, written by lynX back in the early 90s (or earlier) iirc (and > > still used today). > > >=20 > Hmm I can find neither prep nor lynX in a quick Web search. lynX is the author of many things, among them the psyc and psyc2 protol, psyced, the /me command in IRC etc. this page is generated from prep: http:= //my.pages.de (http://my.pages.de/me should show more). So prep is at git://git.psyced.org/git/prep unless I have used the wrong .org name for the onion I use for it. git clone git://git.psyced.org/git/stru should show one project, how a complete website can look like. I've only helped with the translation of one article on a different website. It's definitely interesting to work with. > Po files are separate from the source code files. I don=E2=80=99t know if > prep has such a separation or if such a separation really is better. >=20 > Then again, another issue with HTML/SHTML is that e.g. a hyperlink within > the text is difficult to handle with traditional format strings > without breaking the separation: >=20 > * The link text should be translated in the context of the text > surrounding the link >=20 > * but the link formatting and maybe the link destination URL maybe > should not be changeable by the translator. >=20 > Does prep handle this? To some extent. prep is not SGML. It's been a while since I've looked into it but basically you have a unique syntax. The following snippet (from pages/my/convivenza.mlm) doesn't show it's full usage, but it show how links are handled: I)#section Approfondimenti D)#section Vertiefung E)#section Further Reading
  1. (de) [https://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Wahlen/Bund/2013/Analyse/Disziplin_= und_Fairness Piratenpartei, Analyse zur Bundestagswahl 2013: Disziplin und = Fairness];
  2. (en) [http://piratetimes.net/what-is-happening-in-germany/ Andrew Reite= meyer, What is Happening in Germany];
  3. (en) [http://my.pages.de/ppp-hurting carlo von lynX, How to build a Par= ticipatory Political Party: Stop the Hurting], citing (en) Rick Falkvinge, = Swarmwise =E2=80=93 Paragraphs on Infighting and Moderation; I)
  4. (it) [https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classificazione_delle_fallacie Cl= assificazione delle fallacie]; DE)
  5. (en) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_fallacy Logical Fallacies= ]; [https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com yourlogicalfallacyis=E2=80=A6], [http://w= ww.logicalfallacies.info logicalfallacies.info]; ##
  6. (en) [http://www.sociology.org/content/vol006.001/liu.html What Does= Research Say about the Nature of Computer-mediated Communication?], 2002: = =C2=ABKiesler et al. (1985) reported that they could not find any influence= of CMC environments on physiological arousal, nor on emotions or self-eval= uations. In addition, Kiesler et al. found that participants in CMC groups = evaluated each other lower than those in FtF groups. From the perspective o= f Kiesler et al. (1985), CMC environments were impersonal.=C2=BB; ##
  7. (en) Kiesler, Sproull, [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/articl= e/pii/074959789290047B Group decision making and communication technology]:= =C2=ABExperiments show that, compared with a face-to-face meeting, a compu= ter-mediated discussion leads to delays; more explicit and outspoken advoca= cy; =E2=80=9Cflaming;=E2=80=9D more equal participation among group members= ; and more extreme, unconventional, or risky decisions.=C2=BB; ## (((fn (en) [https://blog.discourse.org/2013/03/the-universal-rules-of-ci= vilized-discourse/ The Universal Rules of Civilized Discourse], 2013: =C2= =ABThe principles in the default Discourse community behavior FAQ were dist= illed, as best we could, from the common, shared community guidelines of mo= re than 50 forums active for a decade or more.=C2=BB)))
  8. (it) [https://pad.partito-pirata.it/p/2014-rispetto discussione struttu= rata sulla Convivenza, 2014];
  9. (it) [https://pad.partito-pirata.it/p/2014-altrostatuto GdL Stru, Racco= mandazioni Strutturali per facilitare una Partecipazione Orizzontale all'Al= traEuropa, 2014];
## I) TODO FIXME D)#section Alternative Ans=C3=A4tze E)#section Alternative Approaches D)Unter DE)Restorative Justice\ DE)(((fn (en) [https://www.rpiassn.org/practice-areas/what-is-restorative-j= ustice/ Restorative Justice]))) D)versteht sich eine Methode, Frieden zwischen den Mitwirkenden zu schaffen= durch quasi-=C3=B6ffentlicher Aussprache und Einigung auf Ma=C3=9Fnahmen z= ur Wiederherstellung einer Gerechtigkeit. E)is a method to re-establish peace between the participants by nearly publ= ic ventilation and agreement on measures to restore justice. D)Die Einfachheit dieses Ansatzes ist verlockend, wahrt allerdings nicht di= e Bed=C3=BCrfnisse nach Privatsph=C3=A4re der Mitwirkenden, weswegen ein ge= w=C3=A4hltes Schiedsgericht diese Herausforderung besser erf=C3=BCllen kann. E)The simplicity of this method is inviting, it doesn't however take the ne= eds for privacy of the participants in consideration, whereby a Court of Ar= bitration can serve a better job. D)Ausserdem setzt es erst nach entstandenem Schaden an, w=C3=A4hrend unsere= r Ansatz auf Pr=C3=A4vention zielt. E)Also, it only comes into play after damage done, whereas our approach is = oriented on prevention. I)#section Fonti D)#section Quellen E)#section References ## I)#section Annotazioni ## D)#section Fu=C3=9Fnoten ## E)#section Footnotes #footnotes #space 4 #repost convivenza while the format for links [ ], []() etc can be defined as far as I remembe= r. So far I haven't done very much on this. I've had a chat about prep with its developer, and that's about it. To my best knowledge nothing has been developed that allows to conveniently define multiple languages in one source file outside from plain S/XML, and this is what I find interesting about prep. Wether I end up writing a reimp= lementation in Guile or not, there are some interesting ideas that could possibly be ap= plied to your approach. I'll need some time to find time to compare the two approaches and find sim= ilarities. Maybe my reply already helps, with reading the provided (really small) code= base of prep. > Regards, > Florian Thanks, N. --=20 GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 GnuPG: https://c.n0.is/ng0_pubkeys/tree/keys WWW: https://n0.is --uqomxd3r24al2ynr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEqIyK3RKYKNfqwC5S4i+bv+40hYgFAlosY90ACgkQ4i+bv+40 hYgnDA/9HZV2EGGhqo3IrFLNV8UpNP6y48Pgn4hac7bJWDogOU2OezqlwGfvrH6N NsrAr0NUoONtxTpIA8C76K4VqHnYi7V2ILCj3ABXk4WrwCxSig6CenO86Jvhq5hM TUMi6BfzWgv5xf1a4eKBtZFQtxZLI4kDXzUnDbYKarVcxpjcIvp/ViQImQmyyPLG IilASSuVQdLTahROeNllM81xViEwWsQJiLwauwmCfDm805jvXWBV2QV0nzWPkKsC hvJ2UlpuJToMty8bK2wPlnaAwzmUH/lPEVETkCtgOa+uK7jsoYlwbMcvTexzvVzw nn9qemgCfmYxReb4BIl5Hbnzw6PQ20FwtaGVaC/CnSSJvA18oDpjz5X3WR2zbUy8 a3Gotjb/pZOzmTq+Lno0J6KJAuDAaAQcqIf708U3lprjvgNfJKB987hH4UfdeZRr UqqlLTKM0oCDDSBtaXZxqn+AFf/Wtk5+Y/4e285b4BImWq5IQRMogQZwL1oKijnK MNvDaT7Ode+fvq7IMjIMzFeGSTn6++2obYETeLWzPc55aQYpm9RyQLT+OKAOzRS6 EcEg4T9CirZnP5zGfq/ykwJiJEB9iQ0Ie+ckdfuvqxaYOhRnz/FiEu+HXRS2FeuN I9EptxghGrsudKNIpm0R6BMXs7JLdT816pQLmimQqLdafxxGv9w= =R6Wi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uqomxd3r24al2ynr--