From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@fabula.de Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel Subject: Re: AARRRRGGH! Die Libtool, die! Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:24:31 +0100 Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20030218112431.GC28905@www> References: <200302151436.h1FEacTL013547@smtpzilla1.xs4all.nl> <15950.54058.520676.489870@blauw.xs4all.nl> <200302160056.QAA15802@morrowfield.regexps.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1045565782 14669 80.91.224.249 (18 Feb 2003 10:56:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:56:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guile-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18l5QC-0003oS-00 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:56:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18l5RZ-0004dC-06 for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:57:45 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18l5RC-0004ER-00 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:57:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18l5Qm-0003dW-00 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:56:57 -0500 Original-Received: from [217.22.192.104] (helo=www.elogos.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18l5QI-0003KB-00 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:56:26 -0500 Original-Received: by www.elogos.de (Postfix, from userid 5002) id EBBDA1407F; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:24:31 +0100 (CET) Original-To: Tom Lord Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302160056.QAA15802@morrowfield.regexps.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:1951 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.devel:1951 On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 04:56:12PM -0800, Tom Lord wrote: > [perl or python instead of sh] > Bah. > > Both perl and python are not stable. [...] Whereas I consider Perl or Python more appropriate than sh for such things, this is a real problem. To watch this in action see what happens to the Debian packaging system when Perl `grows' a bit ;-) > The problems with the auto* family of tools include: > > 1) reliance on separate distribution [...] Definitely. I'd dream of a very small embeddable interpreter with stable semantics and a tight C interface, very portable, uh, wait a minute. > 2) wrong approach to application portability [...] Many things have changed from the beginnings of Auto*. That's true. > 3) wrong approach to /bin/sh portability (m4) [...] I don't really think that /bin/sh is the right tool for this job. Especially not the mythical monster called ``portable shell''. > 4) wrong approach to makefile portability [...] I have more issues with /bin/sh than with M4, actually. OK, M4 may be obscure, but it has at least semantics ;-) > 5) wrong approach to makefile automation [...] If everyone had GNU Make... (but you're quite right: the only widespread non-Unixoid platform out there probably will have GNU Make whenever it has some form of /bin/sh: via Cygwin. Times have changed). > 6) lack of consideration for package management [...] Uh, oh. Do you mean offering `hooks' to package management systems to let them gather whatever bits of information they need? Or yet-another- package-management-system? Tightly coupled to an application build framework, at that. > 7) excessive complexity [...] Absolutely. I think we agree that this stems mainly from 3), 4) and 5). I'll definitely look into your project. Thanks -- tomas _______________________________________________ Guile-devel mailing list Guile-devel@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guile-devel