From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Amirouche Boubekki Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.devel,gmane.comp.gnu.guix.devel Subject: Re: Guix as a Guile package manager Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2016 15:35:34 +0100 Message-ID: <138b89e2a7ca9e091727a331a416bd6a@hypermove.net> References: <5690E261.8000704@gnu.org> <569113EF.5060605@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1452350167 29876 80.91.229.3 (9 Jan 2016 14:36:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 14:36:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, guix-devel-bounces+amirouche=hypermove.net@gnu.org, guile-devel@gnu.org To: Fabio Pesari Original-X-From: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 09 15:35:51 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aHucR-0007zb-5J for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 15:35:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40789 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHucQ-0003fR-Hd for guile-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:35:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56359) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHucJ-0003cl-51 for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:35:44 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHucH-00085P-Rk for guile-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:35:43 -0500 Original-Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:34227) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aHucD-00084t-U3; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:35:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mfilter30-d.gandi.net (mfilter30-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.161]) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3B741C08B; Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:35:36 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter30-d.gandi.net Original-Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.197]) by mfilter30-d.gandi.net (mfilter30-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TOGK0T4BF27j; Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:35:35 +0100 (CET) X-Originating-IP: 10.58.1.142 Original-Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail2-d.mgt.gandi.net [10.58.1.142]) (Authenticated sender: amirouche@hypermove.net) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 30D6741C08E; Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:35:34 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <569113EF.5060605@gnu.org> X-Sender: amirouche@hypermove.net User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.1.2 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.197 X-BeenThere: guile-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers list for Guile, the GNU extensibility library" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: guile-devel-bounces+guile-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.devel:18114 gmane.comp.gnu.guix.devel:15037 Archived-At: On 2016-01-09 15:06, Fabio Pesari wrote: > On 01/09/2016 02:05 PM, Amirouche Boubekki wrote: >> There is a package manager https://github.com/ijp/guildhall with a >> package >> repository with automatic package publishing without review. > > Asking users to install a separate package manager might work in some > cases (Leiningen, Composer) but it usually leads to fragmentation and > confusion (as it was the case with many Lisps, especially CLs). > That's one of the reason why I advocate for guix as package manager of guile. >> I'm not a core developer, but I don't think it makes sens to fork. >> Most >> if not all features of guix are required by language package manager. >> This includes virtualenv since guix can do them via 'guix >> environment'. > > I called for a fork because having Guix as both a general-purpose > package manager and a Guile-specific package manager is very confusing > and doesn't follow the UNIX philosophy. > Can you explain what a Guile specific fork of guix will bring over guix? > User should be able to upload packages but each package should be > carefully reviewed (possibly by the community itself). This is not how pypi works for instance. >> Somewhat related: even if I never saw a package rejected in guix, I >> think >> most contributors have some expectations regarding the quality of >> packages >> included in guix *main* repository. Otherwise said, I don't mind >> pushing >> a >> alpha software or snippet on pypi, but this is not the case with guix. >> >> So maybe, it will be nice to have a guix repository dedicated to guile >> modules where the expectations will much lower and where guilers >> can freely share their small and not so small contributions. > > I agree with you that users should be able to submit packages easily - > that's why I called for a fork, so that the standards for package > inclusion can be much lower (except for freedom, which is imperative) > and the Guile packages are by default separated from all other > software. > > This could also be achieved with a separate repo (like "guile-contrib" > or something along these lines) for Guix, sure, but I'd still like a > separate repo with a separate database and site, so that important > things like user ratings can be implemented independently from the > other > Guix repos. > I just checked the documentation [1] and it's possible to have third party repositories but the policy is to not fork the effort and package guile softwares in guix. [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/guix.html#index-GUIX_005fPACKAGE_005fPATH >> Also, this will be a visible example of how to extend guix with third >> party >> package repository which is a significant asset is some commercial >> situations. > > I'm not against the idea of third party package repositories (I see no > reason why this functionality should not be implemented) but Guix > should > focus on having every decent quality free program in its repositories, > so that people are not encouraged to use third-party repos. > > I find it self-defeating that in distros like Parabola (or upstream, > Arch), fully functional and semi-popular programs like OpenArena, > pngquant and yuicompressor can only be found in the user repository > (the > AUR), which also distribute proprietary software. > > If people are encouraged to include third-party repos, freedom goes out > of the window pretty easily, so the official repositories should be as > complete as possible (I know it's easier said than done, but it should > be much easier for Guix compared to other package managers). My question is: what must do a guix fork that guix doesn't have already?