multi-lingual guile: language strictness

multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[Matt Wette]

Hi All,

I posed a question on #guile IRC last weekend asking for use cases for 
making Guile
multi-lingual.  The use case that came up was the desire to use Guile as 
an extension
that supports multiple languages for users.  To that end, I wonder how 
important it is
to make these extension languages meet published language conventions or 
standards.
I believe to do so is too difficult: the Guile community does not have 
the volunteer
workforce people to achieve this.  I think it would be more practical to 
look for
reasonable approximations.  If this is the direction to go, then should 
Guile name
these extension languages according to what they attempt to mimic (e.g., 
javascript),
or rather rename to something that has a similar sounding name (e.g., 
guavascript), or,
as another option, rename with an extension monicker (e.g., javascriptx)?

Matt

Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[Brett Gilio]

Matt Wette writes:

> Hi All,
>
> I posed a question on #guile IRC last weekend asking for use 
> cases for making
> Guile
> multi-lingual. The use case that came up was the desire to use 
> Guile as an
> extension
> that supports multiple languages for users. To that end, I 
> wonder how important
> it is
> to make these extension languages meet published language 
> conventions or
> standards.
> I believe to do so is too difficult: the Guile community does 
> not have the
> volunteer
> workforce people to achieve this. I think it would be more 
> practical to look
> for
> reasonable approximations. If this is the direction to go, then 
> should Guile
> name
> these extension languages according to what they attempt to 
> mimic (e.g.,
> javascript),
> or rather rename to something that has a similar sounding name 
> (e.g.,
> guavascript), or,
> as another option, rename with an extension monicker (e.g., 
> javascriptx)?
>
> Matt

Is this possibility for making Guile multi-lingual a promised 
feature,
or more of a wishlist type thing? I'll have to think about some 
ways
that might be good to approach this, because the limiting
volunteer-community is definitely going to be an issue.



-- 
Brett M. Gilio
Free Software Foundation, Member
https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org

Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[tomas]

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On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 07:53:51PM -0700, Matt Wette wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I posed a question on #guile IRC last weekend asking for use cases
> for making Guile [...]

> as another option, rename with an extension monicker (e.g., javascriptx)?

+1 for a "pidgin-" prefix (somewhat tongue-in-cheek ;-P

Or perhaps "pidguin-"?

But more seriously: I like the "extension" (be it prefix or suffix)
pattern most: people see what's intended and that it isn't the
"real thing".

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[William ML Leslie]

On 14 July 2018 at 12:53, Matt Wette <matt.wette@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I posed a question on #guile IRC last weekend asking for use cases for
> making Guile
> multi-lingual.  The use case that came up was the desire to use Guile as an
> extension
> that supports multiple languages for users.  To that end, I wonder how
> important it is
> to make these extension languages meet published language conventions or
> standards.
> I believe to do so is too difficult: the Guile community does not have the
> volunteer
> workforce people to achieve this.  I think it would be more practical to
> look for
> reasonable approximations.  If this is the direction to go, then should
> Guile name
> these extension languages according to what they attempt to mimic (e.g.,
> javascript),
> or rather rename to something that has a similar sounding name (e.g.,
> guavascript), or,
> as another option, rename with an extension monicker (e.g., javascriptx)?
>

+1 on distinguishing non-conformant implementations, makes life easier
when Guile later supports (whether inbuilt or not) a conforming
implementation of that language.

I guess javascript is the exception to that rule, because Guile's
javascript is probably the closest thing to a conforming ES4
implementation out there.

I like the idea of a consistent suffix or prefix for nonconformant
implementations, even in the guildhall.

-- 
William Leslie

Notice:
Likely much of this email is, by the nature of copyright, covered
under copyright law.  You absolutely MAY reproduce any part of it in
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in.  Any attempt to DENY YOU THOSE RIGHTS would be illegal without
prior contractual agreement.

Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[William ML Leslie]

On 14 July 2018 at 12:57, Brett Gilio <brettg@posteo.net> wrote:
> Is this possibility for making Guile multi-lingual a promised feature,
> or more of a wishlist type thing? I'll have to think about some ways
> that might be good to approach this, because the limiting
> volunteer-community is definitely going to be an issue.
>

It's already a thing.

https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Other-Languages.html

There are some other user-supplied languages installable as packages,
such as the delightful Wisp and guile-log

-- 
William Leslie

Notice:
Likely much of this email is, by the nature of copyright, covered
under copyright law.  You absolutely MAY reproduce any part of it in
accordance with the copyright law of the nation you are reading this
in.  Any attempt to DENY YOU THOSE RIGHTS would be illegal without
prior contractual agreement.

Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Jul 2018, at 15:53, William ML Leslie <william.leslie.ttg@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 14 July 2018 at 12:57, Brett Gilio <brettg@posteo.net> wrote:
>> Is this possibility for making Guile multi-lingual a promised feature,
>> or more of a wishlist type thing? I'll have to think about some ways
>> that might be good to approach this, because the limiting
>> volunteer-community is definitely going to be an issue.
>> 
> 
> It's already a thing.
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Other-Languages.html

Is it possible to call them at the same time, via the C interface?

Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[Matt Wette]

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On 07/14/2018 09:22 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> On 14 Jul 2018, at 15:53, William ML Leslie<william.leslie.ttg@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>> On 14 July 2018 at 12:57, Brett Gilio<brettg@posteo.net>  wrote:
>>> Is this possibility for making Guile multi-lingual a promised feature,
>>> or more of a wishlist type thing? I'll have to think about some ways
>>> that might be good to approach this, because the limiting
>>> volunteer-community is definitely going to be an issue.
>>>
>> It's already a thing.
>>
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Other-Languages.html
> Is it possible to call them at the same time, via the C interface?
>
>
>
I would think so.  In general all languages see the same name space.

scheme@(guile-user)> ,L ecmascript
Happy hacking with ECMAScript!  To switch back, type `,L scheme'.
ecmascript@(guile-user)> function foo(x) { return x + 1; };
ecmascript@(guile-user)> foo(1);
$1 = 2
ecmascript@(guile-user)> ,L scheme
Happy hacking with Scheme!  To switch back, type `,L ecmascript'.
scheme@(guile-user)> (foo 1)
$2 = 2


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Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 Jul 2018, at 20:45, Matt Wette <matt.wette@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 07/14/2018 09:22 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>>> On 14 Jul 2018, at 15:53, William ML Leslie <william.leslie.ttg@gmail.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 14 July 2018 at 12:57, Brett Gilio 
>>> <brettg@posteo.net>
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Is this possibility for making Guile multi-lingual a promised feature,
>>>> or more of a wishlist type thing? I'll have to think about some ways
>>>> that might be good to approach this, because the limiting
>>>> volunteer-community is definitely going to be an issue.
>>>> 
>>> It's already a thing.
>>> 
>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Other-Languages.html
>> Is it possible to call them at the same time, via the C interface?
>> 
> I would think so.  In general all languages see the same name space.
> 
> scheme@(guile-user)> ,L ecmascript
> Happy hacking with ECMAScript!  To switch back, type `,L scheme'.
> ecmascript@(guile-user)> function foo(x) { return x + 1; };
> ecmascript@(guile-user)> foo(1);
> $1 = 2
> ecmascript@(guile-user)> ,L scheme
> Happy hacking with Scheme!  To switch back, type `,L ecmascript'.
> scheme@(guile-user)> (foo 1)
> $2 = 2

Yes, that is what I asked for, to be able to create objects in one language and interact with the same objects in another.

Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[Brett Gilio]

William ML Leslie writes:
> It's already a thing.
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Other-Languages.html
>
> There are some other user-supplied languages installable as 
> packages,
> such as the delightful Wisp and guile-log

Learn something new about the wonderful Guile, everyday.


-- 
Brett M. Gilio
Free Software Foundation, Member
https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org

Re: multi-lingual guile: language strictness

[Hugo Hörnquist]

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 11:49:28PM +1000, William ML Leslie wrote:

> I guess javascript is the exception to that rule, because Guile's
> javascript is probably the closest thing to a conforming ES4
> implementation out there.

Since when is that that the case? The manual page for
ECMAScript (6.24.3) states:

> The goal was to support ECMAScript version 3.1, a
> relatively small language, but the implementor was
> completely irresponsible and got distracted by other
> things before finishing the standard library, and even
> some bits of the syntax.

Which make it sound like that implementation is far from
good.

-- 
hugo