From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mark H Weaver Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.bugs Subject: bug#14792: Error in manual "(guile-2) Object Properties" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:52:23 -0400 Message-ID: <87vc4a1dvs.fsf@tines.lan> References: <87ehbedwxt.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87siztarok.fsf@tines.lan> <87wqp3mlkg.fsf@gnu.org> <87li563396.fsf@tines.lan> <877ggq9wca.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <874nbu2uwf.fsf@tines.lan> <87y5968fpx.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1374004394 23399 80.91.229.3 (16 Jul 2013 19:53:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:53:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 14792@debbugs.gnu.org, Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: bug-guile-bounces+guile-bugs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 16 21:53:12 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-bugs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBJ6-0003Ez-6e for guile-bugs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:53:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52941 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBJ5-0003mL-Tg for guile-bugs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:53:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58501) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBJ2-0003m3-9q for bug-guile@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:53:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBJ1-0005Wq-7t for bug-guile@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:53:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36455) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBJ1-0005WP-4w for bug-guile@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:53:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBJ0-0004Uq-BV for bug-guile@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:53:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Mark H Weaver Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guile@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14792 X-GNU-PR-Package: guile X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14792-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14792.137400437017258 (code B ref 14792); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:53:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14792) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2013 19:52:50 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59004 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBIo-0004UF-8b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:52:50 -0400 Original-Received: from world.peace.net ([96.39.62.75]:54223 ident=hope8) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBIm-0004U4-5r for 14792@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:52:48 -0400 Original-Received: from 209-6-120-240.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com ([209.6.120.240] helo=tines.lan) by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBIe-0003IN-Mp; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:52:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87y5968fpx.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (David Kastrup's message of "Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:30:50 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-guile@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GUILE, GNU's Ubiquitous Extension Language" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guile-bounces+guile-bugs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-guile-bounces+guile-bugs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.bugs:7236 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Mark H Weaver writes: > >> David Kastrup writes: >> >>> Mark H Weaver writes: >>> >>> object identity is checked by eq? and is conceptually different from >>> value equality. >> >> The Scheme standards don't support your view. The _only_ difference >> between 'eq?' and 'eqv?' is that 'eqv?' is well-defined on numbers and >> characters, whereas 'eq?' is unspecified for those types. > > And why would that be if numbers were proper objects? The difference is > _exactly_ there because they aren't. I don't know what you mean by "proper objects". I guess maybe you mean "objects with identity". >> Numbers and characters do not have any notion of "object identity", >> apart from operational equivalence. > > Which is why it does not make a lot of sense to assign "object > properties" to them. I understand that in the dominant "object oriented" programming communities of today, the word "object" usually implies mutability and identity, but the Scheme standards use the term differently. In the Scheme standards, the word "object" is synonymous with "value". R5RS section 1.1 states "Types are associated with values (also called objects) rather than with variables." Furthermore, R6RS consistently calls numbers "objects", even though they lack "object identity" in the sense that you mean. Mark