bug#15221: provide a mechanism to activate readline systemwide

bug#15221: provide a mechanism to activate readline systemwide

[Arne Babenhauserheide (IMK)]

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Hi,

Not having readline at the guile interpreter from the get-go in a GNU
environment was a quite scarring experience for me, so it would be great
to have a way to enable readline by default.

init.scm could provide that, but:

<wingo> it seems to search the load path for init.scm
<wingo> before loading anything else
<wingo> tricky though, apparently that happens even before loading boot-9

Ideally there should be either a compileflag or a systemwide config file
to enable readline support in the whole system. If it is a compile-flag
it might be useful to not make it default, because developers why
develop proprietary applications could then by accident compile a
program with activated readline support.

If such a flag existed, most GNU/Linux distributions could simply
activate it for guile itself (as long as they do not ship unfree scripts
using guile which depend on readline support — those scripts would
violate the GPL, but they would not work at all without readline
support, so this dependency should be pretty clear).

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Doktorand
Gruppe: GHG

Raum: 435/410
Tel.: +49 721 608-22885
arne.babenhauserheide@kit.edu

Karlsruher Institut für Technologie
IMK-ASF
Postfach 36 40
76021 Karlsruhe

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bug#15221: provide a mechanism to activate readline systemwide

[dsmich]

---- "Arne Babenhauserheide (IMK)" <arne.babenhauserheide@kit.edu> wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> Not having readline at the guile interpreter from the get-go in a GNU
> environment was a quite scarring experience for me, so it would be great
> to have a way to enable readline by default.
> 
> init.scm could provide that, but:
> 
> <wingo> it seems to search the load path for init.scm
> <wingo> before loading anything else
> <wingo> tricky though, apparently that happens even before loading boot-9
> 
> Ideally there should be either a compileflag or a systemwide config file
> to enable readline support in the whole system. If it is a compile-flag
> it might be useful to not make it default, because developers why
> develop proprietary applications could then by accident compile a
> program with activated readline support.
> 
> If such a flag existed, most GNU/Linux distributions could simply
> activate it for guile itself (as long as they do not ship unfree scripts
> using guile which depend on readline support — those scripts would
> violate the GPL, but they would not work at all without readline
> support, so this dependency should be pretty clear).

Sometimes readline gets in the way, for example, when using guile with emacs.

If it was enabled by default, then there also must be an option to disable it when not needed.

The main reason readline is not enabled by default (IIRC), is the license differences between readline and guile. (GPL and LGPL)

-Dale

bug#15221: provide a mechanism to activate readline systemwide

[Noah Lavine]

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I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that libguile could be under LGPL,
but guile the executable could be under GPL, and therefore use readline by
default.

As you say, there would have to be an option to turn it off. Maybe
--no-readline?

Noah


On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 10:01 AM, <dsmich@roadrunner.com> wrote:

>
> ---- "Arne Babenhauserheide (IMK)" <arne.babenhauserheide@kit.edu> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Not having readline at the guile interpreter from the get-go in a GNU
> > environment was a quite scarring experience for me, so it would be great
> > to have a way to enable readline by default.
> >
> > init.scm could provide that, but:
> >
> > <wingo> it seems to search the load path for init.scm
> > <wingo> before loading anything else
> > <wingo> tricky though, apparently that happens even before loading boot-9
> >
> > Ideally there should be either a compileflag or a systemwide config file
> > to enable readline support in the whole system. If it is a compile-flag
> > it might be useful to not make it default, because developers why
> > develop proprietary applications could then by accident compile a
> > program with activated readline support.
> >
> > If such a flag existed, most GNU/Linux distributions could simply
> > activate it for guile itself (as long as they do not ship unfree scripts
> > using guile which depend on readline support — those scripts would
> > violate the GPL, but they would not work at all without readline
> > support, so this dependency should be pretty clear).
>
> Sometimes readline gets in the way, for example, when using guile with
> emacs.
>
> If it was enabled by default, then there also must be an option to disable
> it when not needed.
>
> The main reason readline is not enabled by default (IIRC), is the license
> differences between readline and guile. (GPL and LGPL)
>
> -Dale
>
>
>
>
>

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bug#15221: provide a mechanism to activate readline systemwide

[Arne Babenhauserheide (IMK)]

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I am not a lawyer either, but I know that the license of the executable
does not place restrictions on the license of the guile-specific code
(as long as that code is GPL-compatible).

Best wishes,
Arne

Am 30.08.2013 17:49, schrieb Noah Lavine:
> I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that libguile could be under LGPL,
> but guile the executable could be under GPL, and therefore use readline
> by default.
> 
> As you say, there would have to be an option to turn it off. Maybe
> --no-readline?
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 10:01 AM, <dsmich@roadrunner.com
> <mailto:dsmich@roadrunner.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     ---- "Arne Babenhauserheide (IMK)" <arne.babenhauserheide@kit.edu
>     <mailto:arne.babenhauserheide@kit.edu>> wrote:
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > Not having readline at the guile interpreter from the get-go in a GNU
>     > environment was a quite scarring experience for me, so it would be
>     great
>     > to have a way to enable readline by default.
>     >
>     > init.scm could provide that, but:
>     >
>     > <wingo> it seems to search the load path for init.scm
>     > <wingo> before loading anything else
>     > <wingo> tricky though, apparently that happens even before loading
>     boot-9
>     >
>     > Ideally there should be either a compileflag or a systemwide
>     config file
>     > to enable readline support in the whole system. If it is a
>     compile-flag
>     > it might be useful to not make it default, because developers why
>     > develop proprietary applications could then by accident compile a
>     > program with activated readline support.
>     >
>     > If such a flag existed, most GNU/Linux distributions could simply
>     > activate it for guile itself (as long as they do not ship unfree
>     scripts
>     > using guile which depend on readline support — those scripts would
>     > violate the GPL, but they would not work at all without readline
>     > support, so this dependency should be pretty clear).
> 
>     Sometimes readline gets in the way, for example, when using guile
>     with emacs.
> 
>     If it was enabled by default, then there also must be an option to
>     disable it when not needed.
> 
>     The main reason readline is not enabled by default (IIRC), is the
>     license differences between readline and guile. (GPL and LGPL)
> 
>     -Dale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Doktorand
Gruppe: GHG

Raum: 435/410
Tel.: +49 721 608-22885
arne.babenhauserheide@kit.edu

Karlsruher Institut für Technologie
IMK-ASF
Postfach 36 40
76021 Karlsruhe

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bug#15221: reiterating the request

[Tom Tromey]

Hi.  I tried guile today and was surprised to find that it doesn't use
readline by default.  I think this would be a big improvement to the
REPL.

Second best would be a command line option, or editing some config file.

Tom

bug#15221: reiterating the request

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi Tom,

Tom Tromey <tom@tromey.com> writes:
> Hi.  I tried guile today and was surprised to find that it doesn't use
> readline by default.  I think this would be a big improvement to the
> REPL.
>
> Second best would be a command line option, or editing some config file.

You can enable it by adding the following two lines to your ~/.guile:

  (use-modules (ice-9 readline))
  (activate-readline)

See <https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Readline.html>.

I'm sympathetic to the desire to enable it by default, but I'm not sure
how to navigate the license issue, namely that GNU Readline is
GPL-licensed, whereas Guile is LGPL-licensed.

     Regards,
       Mark

bug#15221: reiterating the request

[Tom Tromey]

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:

Mark> I'm sympathetic to the desire to enable it by default, but I'm not sure
Mark> how to navigate the license issue, namely that GNU Readline is
Mark> GPL-licensed, whereas Guile is LGPL-licensed.

Surely doing it only when run interactively poses no problem.

However, another approach is to ask RMS.  It is absurd for two GNU
programs not to be able to interoperate in a logical way.

Tom

bug#15221: reiterating the request

[David Pirotte]

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Hello Tom,
Mark,

> You can enable it by adding the following two lines to your ~/.guile:
> 
>   (use-modules (ice-9 readline))
>   (activate-readline)
> 
> See <https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Readline.html>.

> I'm sympathetic to the desire to enable it by default ...

We have to be careful here, because it changes the repl reader, and I think
it breaks geiser, at least it did last time I tried, admittedly a (very) long time
ago. 

If we change the default, assuming there would be no (more?) license problem, we
need to make sure it does not beak geiser, or provide a deactivate-readline procedure
(I don't think there is one): currently, and afaict, there is no way to reverse
'things' as there were, once readline has been activated.

Cheers,
David

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