From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: David Pirotte Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.bugs Subject: bug#29684: exception printers - request for improvement Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2018 19:23:21 -0300 Message-ID: <20180701192321.75afe2e1@capac> References: <20171213012435.34d43175@capac> <87in5yrk9z.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="Sig_/wl9NzmQI4hWh/0q49swFD7c"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1530483725 5333 195.159.176.226 (1 Jul 2018 22:22:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2018 22:22:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 29684@debbugs.gnu.org To: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) Original-X-From: bug-guile-bounces+guile-bugs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 02 00:22:01 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-bugs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fZkjI-0001FY-Td for guile-bugs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2018 00:22:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55818 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fZklQ-0002eF-6v for guile-bugs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 18:24:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33250) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fZklJ-0002e2-Pd for bug-guile@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 18:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fZklG-0007c7-JL for bug-guile@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 18:24:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:34534) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fZklG-0007br-G2 for bug-guile@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 18:24:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fZklG-0001VE-6l for bug-guile@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 18:24:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: David Pirotte Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guile@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2018 22:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 29684 X-GNU-PR-Package: guile X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 29684-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B29684.15304838175744 (code B ref 29684); Sun, 01 Jul 2018 22:24:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 29684) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2018 22:23:37 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fZkkp-0001UY-L4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 18:23:37 -0400 Original-Received: from maximusconfessor.all2all.org ([79.99.200.102]:36959) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fZkkn-0001UP-IB for 29684@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 18:23:34 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by maximusconfessor.all2all.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC05A04C167; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 00:23:32 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from maximusconfessor.all2all.org ([192.168.0.1]) by localhost (maximusconfessor.all2all.org [192.168.0.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PMM9p7UOWFJY; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 00:23:28 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from capac (unknown [179.210.16.180]) by maximusconfessor.all2all.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 67936A04C165; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 00:23:27 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87in5yrk9z.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-guile@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GUILE, GNU's Ubiquitous Extension Language" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guile-bounces+guile-bugs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-guile" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.bugs:9083 Archived-At: --Sig_/wl9NzmQI4hWh/0q49swFD7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Ludovic, > ... > It seems to me that you can achieve similar effect, at least in some > cases, by parameterizing =E2=80=98current-error-port=E2=80=99. It also m= akes more sense > to me to parameterize =E2=80=98current-error-port=E2=80=99 rather than set > =E2=80=98exception-format=E2=80=99, because the =E2=80=98exception-format= =E2=80=99 is very constrained: > it has to implement at least everything =E2=80=98simple-format=E2=80=99 i= mplements. >=20 > WDYT? >=20 > Besides, note that there=E2=80=99s also =E2=80=98set-exception-printer!= =E2=80=99. It=E2=80=99s a > different kind of customization, but it can serve a similar purpose. To be honest, exactly how does not really matter, I leave that to you (main= tainers): I have used the code, actually written by Daniel, who also claimed it was n= ot complete, iirc, to raise the issue, so we can discuss it between us: I think we should be very (very) friendly to new Guile users, and especial= ly those who do not know scheme (yet); I think I should be able to use Guile-CV to teach basic image manipulation to a class of young teenagers, who would not even know what scheme is, whi= ch means, imo, no guile customization should be required: guile (use-modules (cv)) (im-load "my-preferred-penguin.png") - at this point, even if the image is very small, guile is 'lost' [*] - same if I teach them to compose a few image ops, they commit a mistake while typing .. bang, the exception printer is 'lost' It is perfectly fine, on the opposite side, to ask advanced scheme users (w= ho would want to, but I really don't see the point) configure guile s the repl and t= he exception printer so it tries to print the full content of huge lsts, vecto= rs, arrays ... David [*] one could argue i could have chosen another data structure, but well, I did not :), and imo, we can't tell users who have to manipulate large structures (arrays, vector, think about non s/w engineers scientists, biologists ...), "... don't manipulate large structures in a repl, wrap th= em in a record first ..." it happened to me at university, trying to make a demo of Guile-CV to a gr= oup of postdoc candidates: I updated guile the day before and forgot to repatch both the repl and the exception printers, opened an image, and ... bang! I was in emacs, so ... after a few seconds they all laughed and ... by the time I could recover, repatched guile ... they were all ... gone! (and convinced they should stick to python and open-cv or java and imagej ... --Sig_/wl9NzmQI4hWh/0q49swFD7c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEhCJlRZtBM3furJHe83T9k6MFetcFAls5VFkACgkQ83T9k6MF etdycAgAmjlUNh7wG5nH8SfYqpANIuZtYdL/yO+QKrS4wzvWlJuJTE05BbA/pOZA 4sVdtVI/UmUc/dAwVy1WzJHH4r/slkgdZ1VeTp/knFtwsLZ+zTXASttX1A7TRS1k 3iOFanPauKs15n/zWBX3MrslHzLgCwJ6cvSVn+hAiBBYrUcPf8P8j6OFMdN2EvB5 LNBndK/2Ym3lbSdGhBpamt4r0MonJzuggQFQLczC/w4zLBUHam96og2ZBFM3j6jr rB0kXtmPQYpDV/tuDyDudHRjubdWbHRAhELSNN4qlyahqKlbZx4alhzNkpbEzb2Y UN20k2jYJ4ALF9tA9jhmLsmN6OEf1Q== =619l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/wl9NzmQI4hWh/0q49swFD7c--