From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Zefram Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.bugs Subject: bug#22905: GUILE_INSTALL_LOCALE produces unavoidable noise Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 22:02:29 +0100 Message-ID: <20160808210229.GH24721@fysh.org> References: <20160304141334.GC7946@fysh.org> <878tw8nswc.fsf@pobox.com> <20160807230013.GE24721@fysh.org> <87vazbm2vz.fsf@pobox.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1470690199 25153 195.159.176.226 (8 Aug 2016 21:03:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 21:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 22905@debbugs.gnu.org To: Andy Wingo Original-X-From: bug-guile-bounces+guile-bugs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 08 23:03:15 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-bugs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrha-0006RK-SX for guile-bugs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 23:03:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59751 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrhX-00032t-Pv for guile-bugs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:03:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40873) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrhR-0002v0-Ss for bug-guile@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:03:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrhO-0005BM-Na for bug-guile@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:03:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:34870) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrhO-0005BB-KZ for bug-guile@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:03:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrhO-0006aX-85 for bug-guile@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:03:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Zefram Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guile@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2016 21:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22905 X-GNU-PR-Package: guile X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 22905-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22905.147069015625293 (code B ref 22905); Mon, 08 Aug 2016 21:03:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2016 21:02:36 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrgx-0006Zt-PI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:02:35 -0400 Original-Received: from river.fysh.org ([87.98.248.19]:58736 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bWrgv-0006Zj-Hn for 22905@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:02:34 -0400 Original-Received: from zefram by river.fysh.org with local (Exim 4.84_2 #1 (Debian)) id 1bWrgr-0000ex-LY; Mon, 08 Aug 2016 22:02:29 +0100 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87vazbm2vz.fsf@pobox.com> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-guile@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GUILE, GNU's Ubiquitous Extension Language" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guile-bounces+guile-bugs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-guile" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.lisp.guile.bugs:8367 Archived-At: Andy Wingo wrote: >If you would like for me to work on your bugs then I would appreciate it >if you would keep things constructive. Thanks :) I'm sorry that that bit came across badly. I do appreciate your efforts. >Serious question tho: what sort of back-compatibility can there be with >a Guile that only supports latin-1 strings? I'd expect that almost any program that runs on Guile 1.8 ought to be portable, with only minimal modifications, to later versions of Guile. Obviously this wouldn't work the other way round: if a program relies on 2.0's non-Latin-1 strings then it can't be easily ported back to 1.8. But lots of programs work fine on 1.8, either not processing non-Latin-1 data or processing it in forms other than the builtin string type. Scheme was a good programming language long before Unicode came along. > What property is it that >you are going for here? In that bit, I'm going for it being possible for a program to run on both Guile 1.8 and Guile 2.N while avoiding the new locale warning from Guile 2.N. This should be a single program file, starting with a "#!/usr/bin/guile" line, where /usr/bin/guile may refer to either version of Guile. This would be especially relevant for a program originally written for Guile 1.8, but more generally is relevant for any program that doesn't need any of 2.0's new capabilities. The particular problem that arises is that a possible form for a warning-muffling switch would be a command-line switch that goes on the #! line. Any new switch of that nature wouldn't be recognised by Guile 1.8, and would cause an error when attempting to run the program on 1.8. >What about GUILE_INSTALL_LOCALE=require or something like that? In the environment? That's still not controllable by the program. The environment is the wrong place for any switch that needs to be the choice of the program. Whether to engage with the environmentally-suggested locale ought to be the choice of the program. >How would this work? I imagine a builtin function that returns a truth value saying whether the Guile framework has emitted a warning before running the program. Suppose it's called "program-running-with-unclean-output". Then those who particularly want clean output can write something like (when (program-running-with-unclean-output) (error "can't run after warnings")) This doesn't avoid the warning appearing, but does avoid treating a run marred by the warning as a successful program run. The program's checking code can easily be made portable back to Guile versions lacking the new function, by using cond-expand, false-if-exception, or other metaprogramming facilities. -zefram