From: Mohsen BANAN <list-general@mohsen.1.banan.byname.net>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: emacs-bidi@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
'Antoine Levitt' <antoine.levitt@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: `C-b' is backward-char, `left' is left-char - why?
Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:46:16 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <yx2aae7zm7b.fsf@mohsen.1.banan.byname.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <32C1BA101EF548F9ACEA6E496DD8019E@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 27 May 2011 16:19:16 -0700")
>>>>> On Fri, 27 May 2011 16:19:16 -0700, "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> said:
>> why do you need "C-f" and "right" to be the same thing?
Drew> I don't. Why do we need them to be different, by default?
Drew> That's the question I posed (`C-b' and `left', actually).
Drew> Haven't seen an answer yet, except that bidi needs them to be different. The
Drew> question then is why bidi's-need-for-this needs to become
Drew> Emacs's-need-in-general (all the time, everywhere, for everyone)?
Drew> As I said clearly several times, if it must, it must. Really not a big deal.
Drew> Just asking whether and why it must.
...
Drew> I don't have a better idea than a minor mode, but I know _zero_ about bidi and
Drew> its implementation. Better ideas are certainly welcome. As you said, "what's
Drew> the point of changing stuff that works fine?" If we must, we must. But must
Drew> we? Why?
If you were to view emacs as a gift from the
engineering profession to humanity, and if you
were to re-read Eli's previous note your questions
are answered.
Additionally, please let me present the
perspective of one who needs, cares-about and uses
bidi -- note that after Latin, Perso/Arabic script
is the most widely used character set family on
this planet.
Just like you, I fire up emacs with its default
settings, I go into Gnus and open a message.
That message could be in English/Globish or
Farsi/Arabic/Hebrew (فارسى/عربى) or mixed.
Then I try to reply and edit it in Farsi and use
<right> and <left> keys as they make sense in my
context. Why should that natural behavior not be
default? Why should I, as a bidi user, have to over
write any defaults to do what could be natural for
both you (non-bidi-user) and I (bidi-user).
Are non-Latin character set users of emacs second
class citizens in your view?
Because left-to-right got done before
right-to-left, now <left> can not be different
from 'C-b'?
Sure, there could be some lines of code related to
this that would need to change as we go from 23 to
24 (how big of a deal is that anyway?)
Please explain to us why you think that Eli's
solution is not the most reasonable? I am curious.
...محسن
...Mohsen
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-05-28 0:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-05-27 20:40 `C-b' is backward-char, `left' is left-char - why? Drew Adams
2011-05-27 20:48 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2011-05-27 21:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-05-27 22:08 ` Drew Adams
2011-05-28 0:19 ` Nix
2011-05-27 21:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-05-27 21:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-05-27 22:08 ` Drew Adams
2011-05-27 22:23 ` Antoine Levitt
2011-05-27 23:19 ` Drew Adams
2011-05-28 0:46 ` Mohsen BANAN [this message]
2011-05-28 1:53 ` Drew Adams
2011-05-28 2:24 ` Mohsen BANAN
2011-05-28 8:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-05-27 23:09 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-05-27 23:23 ` Drew Adams
2011-05-28 0:25 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-05-28 0:39 ` Drew Adams
2011-05-28 6:57 ` David Kastrup
2011-05-28 8:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-05-28 0:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-05-28 1:54 ` Drew Adams
2011-05-28 7:07 ` David Kastrup
2011-05-28 8:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-05-30 3:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-05-31 14:18 ` Davis Herring
2011-05-31 14:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-01 11:48 ` Andy Moreton
2011-06-01 13:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-01 23:26 ` Andy Moreton
2011-06-02 4:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 10:38 ` Andy Moreton
2011-06-02 11:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 12:59 ` Andy Moreton
2011-06-02 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 16:23 ` Andy Moreton
2011-06-02 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 21:42 ` Andy Moreton
2011-06-03 7:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 17:09 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-02 18:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-03 14:35 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-03 15:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-03 15:14 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-03 16:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-03 20:56 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-04 6:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-05 16:51 ` Ehud Karni
2011-06-05 17:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-05 17:19 ` Ehud Karni
2011-06-05 17:26 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-05 17:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-05 18:26 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-05 19:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-07 8:51 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-07 10:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 15:35 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-06-02 17:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 19:29 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-06-02 21:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-03 0:47 ` Kenichi Handa
2011-06-03 7:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-05 11:27 ` Kenichi Handa
2011-06-05 13:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-06-02 7:23 ` David Kastrup
2011-06-02 8:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
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