From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Input methods (Emacs and others), plain X [was: Japanese input in Linux environment] Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 20:37:07 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20170607080206.GA3070@workstation> <20170607082638.GA18108@tuxteam.de> <20170607110620.GA24669@tuxteam.de> <20170607201832.GA15082@tuxteam.de> <20170608091221.GA7887@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1496947083 31201 195.159.176.226 (8 Jun 2017 18:38:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:38:03 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 08 20:37:59 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2Jj-0007vZ-Hp for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 20:37:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50997 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2Jo-0000L9-QG for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:38:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43159) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2JD-00007d-L7 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:37:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2J9-0001ab-8Z for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:37:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=49610 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2J9-0001Zk-10 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:37:23 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ2J0-0005lx-9u for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 20:37:14 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 76 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:8EOaMoOb4mYi23EroB4v4/YMffg= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:113407 Archived-At: > It's slightly different. The initial main > impetus behind GNOME was that the widget > toolkit behind KDE, Qt, wasn't Free at the > time -- something which has changed long, > long time ago. Cute! That was it. Now I remember. This was explained it the book as well. > Then, of course, you had different tribes and > what not. I think that would be a really > thrilling case study for an anthropologist. > Perhaps we can learn something from it. > > [...] > > You've got to look into one to understand > that, and be it that, like me, you support it > for someone else. Long before I ever saw Gnome and KDE, I saw Linux systems (or if it was BSDs or whatever) that looked like desktop systems. They had the xclock and tons of small windows scattered over a high-resolution monitor, and basically every window had the "x" prefix in the titlebar. It didn't look as neat and polished as Finder but not as tasteless as Windows. It was a higher degree of hacker appeal despite being a GUI. Now what exactly is the difference between such a paleo-graphical Unix system and a system that has a desktop suite like Gnome or KDE? Aren't DEs illogical no matter what one thinks of them? OS > GFX system > ( terminal emulator )_WM > launch programs from shell If if you aren't into shell/batch/text-based computing but like GUIs with a "Start" menu etc., doesn't that just translate into OS > GFX system > ( "Start" menu & file browser )_WM > launch programs by mouse-clicking ? Obviously anyone can call their programs whatever they want, including gnome-screenshot and gnome-terminal. In a way, my very reasoning could be applied to xterm and xpdf as well - I mean, what's X about them? They are just applications like any other that are executable/viewable in X. It is possible tho that the degree of modularity and independence to software development were different back then in that that you actually had to adapt software at the end of the line to the underlying X. It is also possible it is just a phycological thing to make big systems out of small components, and try to force the components into a fold that is common to all. My "train" goes in the other direction, i.e. the system is bigger than the component, but hey, real trains are actually bi-directional as long as they have two locomotives. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573