From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:56:04 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279007822 9086 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2010 07:57:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:57:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 13 09:57:01 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYaMJ-0003Oa-GY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:57:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57353 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYaME-0001iC-Ua for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:56:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53781 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYaM6-0001hn-Gh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:56:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYaLd-00047t-BK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:56:17 -0400 Original-Received: from ebb06.tieto.com ([131.207.168.38]:62443) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYaLd-00047e-2j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:56:13 -0400 X-AuditID: 83cfa826-b7cd7ae0000009a3-f8-4c3c1c1a82ce Original-Received: from FIVLA-EXHUB02.eu.tieto.com ( [131.207.136.42]) by ebb06.tieto.com (SMTP Mailer) with SMTP id 20.FA.02467.A1C1C3C4; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:56:10 +0300 (EEST) Original-Received: from uw000509 (10.48.99.3) by inbound.tieto.com (131.207.136.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:56:09 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22=D3scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:53:24 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.2.50 (gnu/linux) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAARUSH/E= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127152 Archived-At: I disagree that Emacs is actively trying to work against certain classes of users, as you seem to suggest. Obviously, Emacs has varying degrees of support for different programming languages. Somebody has to provide such support, it does not materialise out of the blue, and as with most free software support follows the interest of the developers. If C# is poorly supported, it simply means that very few dedicated emacs hackers has had the need/motivation/time to provide it. In contrast, Emacs offers some of the best Common Lisp support anywhere, complete with cross-referencing, documentation access, completion and minibuffer argument hints. And also when it comes to backwards compability, Emacs is no different than so many other tools. As the story goes, the inventors of `make' quickly realised that using a whitespace character as command indicator was a poor choice but they dared not change it as the tool already had something like 10 users! Of course seasoned users will protest if features ingrained in Emacs past decades are suggested altered, such is the nature of any user of any tool. Just listen to the debates over the ribbon in Microsoft Office or when Facebook redesigns its interface. It is then up to the current maintainers to decide whether or not to listen, and as allways there will be a bias to cater to an existing audience rather than sway to whatever illusive potential attraction this or that change will provide. Like almost any other kind of software, Emacs has not got infinite amount of resources and thus must pick its battles carefully and there will always be people who will find their particular needs ill-served. Even if such a group may be really big in a global perspective (like C# users) they still represent a dwindling population among those that have the means to move Emacs in that direction. ------------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Christian Lynbech | christian #\@ defun #\. dk ------------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual. - petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)