bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Visuwesh]

Can a user option be added to not show the "Type:" annotation in *Help*
buffers for certain functions?  An example is `char-after'

    char-after is a built-in function in ‘src/editfns.c’.

    (char-after &optional POS) Type: (function (&optional (or marker
    integer)) (or null (integer -2305843009213693952
    2305843009213693951)))

    Return character in current buffer at position POS.
    POS is an integer or a marker and defaults to point.
    If POS is out of range, the value is nil.

If not a user option, can it be moved after the docstring?


In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 8, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw
 scroll bars) of 2023-08-10 built on astatine
Repository revision: 65f71ca9aaa1587284293e2e34a0e28ee6b42380
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101007
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid

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bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Philip Kaludercic]

Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com> writes:

> Can a user option be added to not show the "Type:" annotation in *Help*
> buffers for certain functions?  An example is `char-after'
>
>     char-after is a built-in function in ‘src/editfns.c’.
>
>     (char-after &optional POS) Type: (function (&optional (or marker
>     integer)) (or null (integer -2305843009213693952
>     2305843009213693951)))
>
>     Return character in current buffer at position POS.
>     POS is an integer or a marker and defaults to point.
>     If POS is out of range, the value is nil.
>
> If not a user option, can it be moved after the docstring?

Only functions have types, these are not the same types those given to
user options.

That being said, I agree that in cases like `char-after' the information
of a very specific type like that one is limited.  I don't know if there
is a sensible heuristic to reformat the type into something like

  (function (&optional position) (or position null))

using some kind of type aliasing, but it might be better to not
highlight the information so prominently?

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Helmut Eller]

On Mon, Aug 14 2023, Philip Kaludercic wrote:

> That being said, I agree that in cases like `char-after' the information
> of a very specific type like that one is limited.  I don't know if there
> is a sensible heuristic to reformat the type into something like
>
>   (function (&optional position) (or position null))
>
> using some kind of type aliasing, but it might be better to not
> highlight the information so prominently?

It would make sense to rewrite
  (integer -2305843009213693952 2305843009213693951)
as fixnum.

Helmut

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Philip Kaludercic]

Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Aug 14 2023, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>
>> That being said, I agree that in cases like `char-after' the information
>> of a very specific type like that one is limited.  I don't know if there
>> is a sensible heuristic to reformat the type into something like
>>
>>   (function (&optional position) (or position null))
>>
>> using some kind of type aliasing, but it might be better to not
>> highlight the information so prominently?
>
> It would make sense to rewrite
>   (integer -2305843009213693952 2305843009213693951)
> as fixnum.

My point is rather that the actual return value is not just any number,
but a "position" in a buffer.  So even fixnum would be too general.

> Helmut

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Helmut Eller]

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bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Philip Kaludercic]

Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@gmail.com> writes:

> Error!  Result from decryption:
>
> Decryption failed
>
> Decryption failed

You seen to have sent an encrypted message to the mailing list.  That is
an issue in case any one wants to read the public archive, but I can't
read the message right now either, so it would be nice if you could
resend the message.

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Helmut Eller]

On Mon, Aug 14 2023, Philip Kaludercic wrote:

> You seen to have sent an encrypted message to the mailing list.  That is
> an issue in case any one wants to read the public archive, but I can't
> read the message right now either, so it would be nice if you could
> resend the message.

Oops. I had written:

  The result can also be nil.  So a your "position" type would include nil
  but exclude 0 and negative fixnums.  Fine with me.

Helmut

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Visuwesh]

[திங்கள் ஆகஸ்ட் 14, 2023] Philip Kaludercic wrote:

> Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Can a user option be added to not show the "Type:" annotation in *Help*
>> buffers for certain functions?  An example is `char-after'
>>
>>     char-after is a built-in function in ‘src/editfns.c’.
>>
>>     (char-after &optional POS) Type: (function (&optional (or marker
>>     integer)) (or null (integer -2305843009213693952
>>     2305843009213693951)))
>>
>>     Return character in current buffer at position POS.
>>     POS is an integer or a marker and defaults to point.
>>     If POS is out of range, the value is nil.
>>
>> If not a user option, can it be moved after the docstring?
>
> Only functions have types, these are not the same types those given to
> user options.

There's no confusion about user option type and function argument type
but this info crowds the second line which only contained the function
signature before.  Other extra info are at the bottom of the buffer so
moving it there would be more consistent too.

> That being said, I agree that in cases like `char-after' the information
> of a very specific type like that one is limited.  I don't know if there
> is a sensible heuristic to reformat the type into something like
>
>   (function (&optional position) (or position null))
>
> using some kind of type aliasing, but it might be better to not
> highlight the information so prominently?

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: 65288@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 20:47:31 +0530
> 
> [திங்கள் ஆகஸ்ட் 14, 2023] Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> 
> > Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> Can a user option be added to not show the "Type:" annotation in *Help*
> >> buffers for certain functions?  An example is `char-after'
> >>
> >>     char-after is a built-in function in ‘src/editfns.c’.
> >>
> >>     (char-after &optional POS) Type: (function (&optional (or marker
> >>     integer)) (or null (integer -2305843009213693952
> >>     2305843009213693951)))
> >>
> >>     Return character in current buffer at position POS.
> >>     POS is an integer or a marker and defaults to point.
> >>     If POS is out of range, the value is nil.
> >>
> >> If not a user option, can it be moved after the docstring?
> >
> > Only functions have types, these are not the same types those given to
> > user options.
> 
> There's no confusion about user option type and function argument type
> but this info crowds the second line which only contained the function
> signature before.  Other extra info are at the bottom of the buffer so
> moving it there would be more consistent too.
> 
> > That being said, I agree that in cases like `char-after' the information
> > of a very specific type like that one is limited.  I don't know if there
> > is a sensible heuristic to reformat the type into something like
> >
> >   (function (&optional position) (or position null))
> >
> > using some kind of type aliasing, but it might be better to not
> > highlight the information so prominently?

Andrea, would it make sense to introduce an option which could disable
showing this information in *Help*?

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Gregory Heytings]

>
> Andrea, would it make sense to introduce an option which could disable 
> showing this information in *Help*?
>

FWIW, it's already possible to do that with:

(defun comp-function-type-spec (&rest args))

(which disables showing that information in all cases) or

(define-advice comp-function-type-spec (:around (cfts function))
   (unless (member function '(char-after char-before))
     (funcall cfts function)))

(which disables showing that information for specific cases).  A user 
option would perhaps make sense, though.

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Andrea Corallo]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Cc: 65288@debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com>
>> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 20:47:31 +0530
>> 
>> [திங்கள் ஆகஸ்ட் 14, 2023] Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> 
>> > Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com> writes:
>> >
>> >> Can a user option be added to not show the "Type:" annotation in *Help*
>> >> buffers for certain functions?  An example is `char-after'
>> >>
>> >>     char-after is a built-in function in ‘src/editfns.c’.
>> >>
>> >>     (char-after &optional POS) Type: (function (&optional (or marker
>> >>     integer)) (or null (integer -2305843009213693952
>> >>     2305843009213693951)))
>> >>
>> >>     Return character in current buffer at position POS.
>> >>     POS is an integer or a marker and defaults to point.
>> >>     If POS is out of range, the value is nil.
>> >>
>> >> If not a user option, can it be moved after the docstring?
>> >
>> > Only functions have types, these are not the same types those given to
>> > user options.
>> 
>> There's no confusion about user option type and function argument type
>> but this info crowds the second line which only contained the function
>> signature before.  Other extra info are at the bottom of the buffer so
>> moving it there would be more consistent too.
>> 
>> > That being said, I agree that in cases like `char-after' the information
>> > of a very specific type like that one is limited.  I don't know if there
>> > is a sensible heuristic to reformat the type into something like
>> >
>> >   (function (&optional position) (or position null))
>> >
>> > using some kind of type aliasing, but it might be better to not
>> > highlight the information so prominently?
>
> Andrea, would it make sense to introduce an option which could disable
> showing this information in *Help*?

Hi Eli,

sure why not, something like `help-enable-function-type'?

Thanks

  Andrea

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Andrea Corallo]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> I think "help-display-function-type" might be more clear.

Re-adding the list.

  Andrea

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Philip Kaludercic]

Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>
>> I think "help-display-function-type" might be more clear.
>
> Re-adding the list.

Eh sorry, I responded from my phone.

>   Andrea

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
> Cc: Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com>,  philipk@posteo.net,  65288@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 06:11:20 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Andrea, would it make sense to introduce an option which could disable
> > showing this information in *Help*?
> 
> Hi Eli,
> 
> sure why not, something like `help-enable-function-type'?

Yes, something like that.

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Andrea Corallo]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
>> Cc: Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com>,  philipk@posteo.net,  65288@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 06:11:20 -0400
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Andrea, would it make sense to introduce an option which could disable
>> > showing this information in *Help*?
>> 
>> Hi Eli,
>> 
>> sure why not, something like `help-enable-function-type'?
>
> Yes, something like that.

Okay I pushed 652e45b70d8 introducing `help-display-function-type' as
suggested by Philip, happy to tweak the name or the doc if we feel it's
necessary.

Thanks

  Andrea

bug#65288: 30.0.50; Make Type: annotation optional in *Help* buffers

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
> Cc: visuweshm@gmail.com,  philipk@posteo.net,  65288@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 16:39:40 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> sure why not, something like `help-enable-function-type'?
> >
> > Yes, something like that.
> 
> Okay I pushed 652e45b70d8 introducing `help-display-function-type' as
> suggested by Philip, happy to tweak the name or the doc if we feel it's
> necessary.

Thanks, tweaked, and closing the bug.