From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F_Kayaalp?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Before l10n, better practices for (message) ? Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 02:27:31 +0300 Message-ID: References: <2623E5C5-4D40-4C9F-BFF6-181D2E69F984@gmail.com> <831srgnuyc.fsf@gnu.org> <87vaon2b7r.fsf@jane> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1495927701 19552 195.159.176.226 (27 May 2017 23:28:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 23:28:21 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Jean-Christophe Helary , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 28 01:28:17 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dEl84-0004y7-MJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 May 2017 01:28:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42238 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dEl89-0001g3-Nc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 27 May 2017 19:28:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37507) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dEl7W-0001fy-47 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 27 May 2017 19:27:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dEl7V-00082O-8H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 27 May 2017 19:27:42 -0400 Original-Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:55381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dEl7R-00081M-DU; Sat, 27 May 2017 19:27:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mfilter14-d.gandi.net (mfilter14-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.142]) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFD817209C; Sun, 28 May 2017 01:27:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter14-d.gandi.net Original-Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.196]) by mfilter14-d.gandi.net (mfilter14-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nJDBZbQkzcG9; Sun, 28 May 2017 01:27:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Originating-IP: 95.65.131.160 Original-Received: from xi.xi (unknown [95.65.131.160]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2218117209A; Sun, 28 May 2017 01:27:31 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87vaon2b7r.fsf@jane> (Marcin Borkowski's message of "Sat, 27 May 2017 06:08:24 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.196 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:215268 Archived-At: On 2017-05-27 06:08 +02, Marcin Borkowski wrote: > On 2017-05-23, at 04:55, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Just replace it with 2 different spellings dispatched by the number. > > I guess you are aware that 2 different spellings are not enough for > certain languages...? > > In Polish: > > 0 pakiet=C3=B3w > 1 pakiet > 2, 3, 4 pakiety > 5, 6, ..., 21 pakiet=C3=B3w > 22, 23, 24 pakiety > etc. > > Good luck with l10n. > > (I do not want to discourage work on it. But I'm afraid it's more > difficult than many people think... OTOH, if a reasonable > infrastructure is introduced in Emacs, I might be tempted to provide > some translations for Polish.) Hi, I don't know whether or not I'm supposed to post here, but just thought that I'd add my two cents as a mostly-user: I'd rather have all of Emacs in English. These are my reasons: - Some packages will have translations, some won't, and thus some messages will be in my language, and some English, which will be confusing (and annoying). - The manuals will have to be translated too. - It will undermine online discussion, as people will start posting (error) messages in their locales, and others will have to decode them. Also, using online documentation will become harder as now one will need to translate. - Emacs probably has way more strings to be translated than most applications out there, which will hinder the translations and make it more error prone. Also, the community is not large enough that the messages will always be up-to-date and correct. I believe most users would just use Emacs in English even if the strings were translated, as many have their LC_MESSAGES or entire OS in English: It's just more convenient for a power user. The Emacs community is mostly anglophone already anyways, and I doubt having translations will change that at all. Also, given the size of our community and the amount of work (translating Emacs is translating a programming language runtime + a collection of applications), it may result to be too much of a burden on it. Nevertheless, if translations happen, I'll try to help with Turkish (my mother tongue) translations. And please excuse me if I weren't supposed to post here as I'm not the most experienced user and have only a bunch of patches in Emacs. Best, gk.