From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yann Hodique Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: VC mode and git Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 08:38:08 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20150324163714.GA27775@thyrsus.com> <83y4mmpb1n.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhim9sqp.fsf@igel.home> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427384432 9979 80.91.229.3 (26 Mar 2015 15:40:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:40:32 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 26 16:40:24 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yb9tM-0001KK-Ua for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:40:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45042 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yb9tM-0000jl-AP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:40:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50701) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yb9sX-0008WS-57 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:39:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yb9sQ-0001Sr-Ay for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:39:29 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:40985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yb9sQ-0001SL-4w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:39:22 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yb9sN-0000ST-N0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:39:19 +0100 Original-Received: from c-76-21-76-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([76.21.76.138]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:39:19 +0100 Original-Received: from yann.hodique by c-76-21-76-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:39:19 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 62 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-76-21-76-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.4 (darwin) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAACpQTFRF HBgXPyYdPSkeMiwmRkJBYT4sik8zZF1XqWpMx2RDk42MzYRYtrGw09DVySZyaAAAAklJREFUOMuF 0z9v00AUAPCHr/kANgowOi6hjFbOCImp1CdF6kaUCwEmkBJSdYmUSBZRGRMsske1MlKIFKVr5XAr U1TPSFX6XXjvnKp2KOLG97v3x3dnuP7Hgv/B+vLyLlivZkGwSP6GlXABvHmyDese0GIn2zBzNYCX bEGagOswycG6ewMsyMEVVTJMiyQHv2lzuTOSNrDPWfhF8FSpuGXt5IB6s6bCNfLOt8FoEMT1JAv7 wFz25E7gtqFLqS856IJhl481/MyN27tnGe+wc1uprzn4fvS+MFYxwvDtLcyT1Y9oUhyri3ZHtTIg B7NP0WmDMo7VcJABKRvRtKNbq3hxC21ZKx2pMAWVgQt5H95MNSynKnMfZTzTQkSwjKLpPAN1H+CB zogmYaa5ED7eUzMeY+tw9HqRAcEBnoUhxYfFQZIBelRNhGjSKj6cb14kBH3hY5dCGI+XpzXTebzJ gY+CC47FHiGENQdXVfeBuvA55y5eYRgOnTJRdXC+6eFTiiHbHyplKVGoHGDQw1okzi5BCcUbXANn KL4WYAeyZJomJu0l4ALKZvlCvkrBOaG3dhOvdtlLjJt6AP2UN3DosoppOhr20v+Cwq4ncE8JwaLB gJpyPa/n0mQIJn0m0EExTHE5HgxUHAvnsjT41ARTnu8juAaUML5bSQHn8vkLBGYDUCkLS+tD577H qwjcpl8Le+BmIWgnHkrgws5BCvjTMbpaAsHPcK6+jXNhLfqGQND4XHhn4Ik5T8HCzKu+Bk98qwq+ 6AFOimPZ8Aem5xXrk2gG/wAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Cancel-Lock: sha1:4Bj7q6YU3zxsfbnsrPueewdfJiw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:184333 Archived-At: >>>>> "Richard" == Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >> > The reason to make this change is to help people who are not >> > sophisticated git users. >> For those people it is even more important that vc does not push by >> default. > With all due respect, I think you are mistaken. C-x v v pushes by > default with CVS and with Bzr, and that has never been a problem. Why > would it be a problem with Git when it is not a problem with the > others? Arguably, C-x v v *never* pushes. What it does instead is always *record* a commit object in the source of truth for commit objects. Depending on the VCS that means different places: - in CVS, that source of truth is a server (and that's not pushing, since the commit object doesn't exist elsewhere) - in Bzr, it is the local repository, but depending on Bzr config it might - result in Bzr (not VC) automatically pushing to a remote location, if you're operating on a bound branch - stay local in the other cases (which is how people typically use Bzr) - in Git, it is also the local repository (and while there is no bound-branches, they can be simulated via hooks, which is also VCS-side configuration) Bottom-line, in CVS there is a source of truth per project, and in DVCSes there is also (at least) one per developer. Admittedly, those sources are generally *partially* re-synchronized from time to time, but that does not make it the same situation. If some projects (like Emacs) operate in a more centralized manner, that's fine. But the VCS configuration (per project) is the right place to accomodate that, not the global VC client. The way we look at push is as a brand-new operation, not even something that was done automatically by commit in the old days. The reason being that there is absolutely no 1:1 relationship between those operations: - a push generally covers multiple commits (as in "look, my set of carefully crafted commits finally looks good enough to be published") - "the" place to push to might not exist, or might not be unique (and this is generally not discoverable) As others, I believe any attempt to automatically push will result in more confusion from users than benefits (especially since the current generation is pretty much DVCS-native). I also think we should not encourage users to develop bad habits/expectations by artificially keeping alive the assumption that there is always a central place where all commits have to live. my 2¢ Yann. -- Nature commits no errors; right and wrong are human categories. -- PARDOT KYNES, Arrakis Lectures