From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Riley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 00:58:23 +0100 Organization: aich tea tea pea dicky riley dot net Message-ID: References: <87aa634st8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fwfvsgfv.fsf@wanadoo.es> <877h17scdo.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87hb0b77nr.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739bvs27m.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ty4b4329.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hb0b3yoe.fsf@lifelogs.com> <6ED011D5-E185-44C6-BB31-A445A4E5F83A@gmail.com> <87wr976otx.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ipkq6yy5.fsf@lifelogs.com> <3FB40138-C766-4A45-8E5A-4E404449995E@gmail.com> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325808014 14452 80.91.229.12 (6 Jan 2012 00:00:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 00:00:14 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 06 01:00:11 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RixEA-0007vL-Um for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2012 01:00:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56125 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RixEA-0005kB-FN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 19:00:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39010) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RixE6-0005hs-VD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 19:00:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RixE5-0006bC-KT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 19:00:06 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:40847) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RixE5-0006a9-8g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 19:00:05 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RixE3-0007ro-Q6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jan 2012 01:00:03 +0100 Original-Received: from 85.183.18.158 ([85.183.18.158]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 06 Jan 2012 01:00:03 +0100 Original-Received: from rileyrg by 85.183.18.158 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 06 Jan 2012 01:00:03 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 36 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.183.18.158 Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:0YZNNVMcYf7QxAYqxPoR6E0q+Ck= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147372 Archived-At: Juanma Barranquero writes: > On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 00:14, chad wrote: > >> When you do manual checks, do you run a program that checks for updates, >> downloads them, and then installs them; or do you load up a web browser, >> visit some project pages from memory/bookmarks/etc, and start downloading >> and unpacking zip files? > > Well, for the operating system I do the first, because it is what the > system allows. For other software, I do visit the page, unload zip > files or whatever and unpack them. > >> I'm trying to understand your reasoning for objecting to a default setting that >> would notify the user about critical issues.  Either I'm not understanding what >> you're saying, or you're saying that the default users shouldn't have a feature >> that many (I'd say `vast majority', but `many' is enough) because it might >> cause you to have to type `n' a few times, and that doesn't match what I >> expect from seeing your efforts on emacs-devel. > > My objection is at a more fundamental level: we should not be > distributing binaries. For Windows, we are forced (more or less), > because most Windows users do not have a build environment, so we > should distribute the minimal binary that can possibly work and leave > options to the user. The distribution should have everything the user might *optionally* want. This kind of minimalist thinking doesnt exactly help new users adopt emacs when they have no clue about building or fetching/installing such components themsleves. Let the advanced users opt out, but dont cut off the beginners and new users. Its silly. If distributing binaries local to the emacs install helps people get going then why not? You can disable this. You're an advanced user.