Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX.

[Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com>]

Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@gmail.com> writes:
>> You keep calling things that are pretty obvious and core to UI design
>> issues "flimsy" while offering little in objection. I guess your mind is
>> made up.
>
> And you keep throwing up random unsubstantiated hand-waving as if it's
> somehow authoritative.

What have I said that is any way random? You made that up to camouflage
your wishy washy defence for not supporting the rhs. There are plenty of
authoritative HCI studies which support UI controls being consistent
across desktop applications. I assumed you would have known that so I
didn't go into more detail.

>
>> Frankly I am surprised you think its "flimsy" to make it consistent
>> with the vast majority of other desktop applications. I call it very
>> important.
>
> Consistency is sometimes important, but it's not some kind of magic
> powder that always grants merit.  The question (as Richard pointed
> out)

Yes it is. Consistency is always of some merit. Its why it exists in
well designed apps and products.

> is whether "consistency" is actually _important_ in _this_ case.  It
> may

Consistency is always of some importance. And over thinking it for
Emacs is not healthy IMO.

> indeed be, but so far nobody has provided any real support for that
> position other than vague hand-waving, and I think there's been equally
> good support for the opposition position (not saying a whole lot, I
> admit).

I have seen nothing which comes even close to warranting a departure of
the standard right hand side positioning for desktop apps.

>
> Granted, vague hand-waving is rife in the HCI field, but it's no more
> convincing for that.
>
> -Miles

This vague hand waving of which you speak is non existent. The fact that
UI controls in the same place IS beneficial surely is not disputed. Next
you'll be telling me its "vague hand waving" to have the same Desktop
key sequences to cut/paste/close windows etc across different
apps. Admittedly that, though, doesnt come into an Emacs discussion ;)

And once more you have thrown vaguely veiled scorn at relatively strong
reasons for positioning it on the right while providing
little if any support for placing it anywhere else. Is it the end of the
world to place it left? Of course not. Is it better its where it is on
most other apps? I think it is. And there is nothing "flimsy" or "wishy
washy" about that.

regards

r.