From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 00:18:18 +0100 Organization: University of Cambridge Message-ID: References: <23521879.post@talk.nabble.com> <7b501d5c0905131659r1d79ec56s5a59f76e4713edf9@mail.gmail.com> <23532135.post@talk.nabble.com> <87tz3odq3l.fsf@iki.fi> <23538683.post@talk.nabble.com> <87eiuru24b.fsf@iki.fi> <39370.130.55.118.19.1242397867.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <48914.130.55.118.19.1242592120.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <66C6BA04EBCF4B6DAED69E851627D852@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243207155 30964 80.91.229.12 (24 May 2009 23:19:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 23:19:15 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 01:19:08 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M8My7-0006q6-SN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 01:19:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39887 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8My7-0007fn-8T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:19:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8Mxg-0007XQ-Jf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:18:36 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8Mxc-0007Vn-50 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:18:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52314 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8Mxb-0007Vh-Qr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:18:31 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:46511 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M8Mxb-0000jf-F0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:18:31 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1M8MxZ-0005Mg-RX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:18:29 +0000 Original-Received: from smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk ([193.60.95.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:18:29 +0000 Original-Received: from sdl.web by smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 24 May 2009 23:18:29 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 25 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:wvOXQVGI1j8+s2l9VudM7YjtXDY= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111046 Archived-At: On 2009-05-24 23:33 +0100, Drew Adams wrote: > I'm coming back to this thread because I just tried the new pretest (23.0.94.1), > where the default value of `line-move-visual' is t. > > This is insane, IMO. The default value is t even in formatted modes such as > Buffer Menu and Info. It is t even in code modes such as Emacs-Lisp. If you use > `define-derived-mode' to define a new mode from scratch - a mode that has no > parent mode, it has value t in that mode. It has value t everywhere, by default. > This makes no sense. > > If you absolutely feel the need to make the default value be t for modes such as > text-mode, which (you are convinced) are likely to benefit from it, then do so. > But PLEASE leave the rest of Emacs alone, by default. This is a bad choice for > Emacs - please reconsider this. I also think this is very bad design. Just imagine in vi, change hjkl to something different. If the purpose is to make new users feel at home, then we could create something like firstboot.el that runs in the first run. Most operating systems have this. Bye, -- .: Leo :. [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ] .: I use Emacs :.