From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#5937: 23.1.95; why saving empty abbrev tables Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 09:46:17 +0100 Organization: University of Cambridge Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1272358707 29743 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2010 08:58:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:58:27 +0000 (UTC) To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 27 10:58:26 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gcb-0007Sn-8J for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:58:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43572 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O6gca-0002zu-LU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:58:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O6ga0-0002K7-HX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:55:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42734 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O6gZy-0002JP-6F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:55:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gZt-0006gj-8V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:55:42 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:40935) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gZs-0006gc-TM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:55:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gRb-0000Tq-9b; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:47:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Leo Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:47:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 5937 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.12723580211840 (code B ref -1); Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:47:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2010 08:47:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gRY-0000Td-Mx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:47:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gRW-0000TT-M6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:46:59 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:46414) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gRT-0007Nv-Vi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:46:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O6gRT-0000P5-9B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:46:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40735 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O6gRA-0000NM-Og for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:46:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gR5-000544-EQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:46:36 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:42763) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gR5-00053v-4i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:46:31 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O6gR3-0002i9-LH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:46:29 +0200 Original-Received: from smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk ([193.60.95.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:46:29 +0200 Original-Received: from sdl.web by smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:46:29 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ connect(): No such file or directory Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:gSiej281VpO6SYgF8NPIYJowSXU= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 04:47:03 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:36552 Archived-At: On 2010-04-27 04:49 +0100, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>> It seems to make it more difficult for editing (edit-abbrevs) because >>>> the buffer is full of empty abbrev. I wonder if saving only non-empty >>>> tables is better and user friendlier. >>> It does sound like a good idea. Any objection? >> Would the following patch be acceptable? > > Actually, having tried it now for a while I do have an objection: it > makes it harder to add entries to an abbrev-table if that table > is empty. > > So I think a better option is to sort the tables such that empty tables > are pushed to the end. I thought of this question when creating the patch. I wasn't sure how best to offer the option to add abbrevs to empty tables. When I first tried out abbrev I was confused at edit-abbrevs by all those empty tables. For example, the editing abbrevs buffer could easily have 1000 lines with the empty tables show up. I thought I had done something wrong with those C-x ail stuff. In the end I didn't use abbrev for 2-3 years until last year when I started using snippet. I think users use edit-abbrevs often to view and edit existing abbrevs or adding new ones to a non-empty table. When an abbrev tale is empty it is most likely the user hasn't used abbrevs in the major mode associated with it. Personally, I prefer keeping the edit abbrevs buffer smaller. It is cleaner and less confusing. Do you think we can address this issue in another way for example by offering a key biding to enter an empty table? For example, make M-RET move point to the end of current abbrev table and asking for a table name (with completion)? (this is similar to M-RET in org mode) > Stefan Leo