From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Init error message Date: 13 Mar 2003 13:44:55 +0100 Organization: T-Online Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <1fgba.43206$sf5.31886@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <24Oba.66302$qi4.41393@rwcrnsc54> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1047560003 20998 80.91.224.249 (13 Mar 2003 12:53:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:53:23 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 13 13:53:19 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18tSD0-0005S8-00 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:53:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18tSAZ-00032v-09 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 07:50:47 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 58 Original-X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1047559496 04 6462 4rzRE+kSS6Ataf 030313 12:44:56 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-ID: Xc3fXoZXZebWBAZ+l6kuQX8kHYC6HEb+f9Rvnn4qZ7RGHuNJ5l4UcD X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6,xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN;i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:111055 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:7555 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:7555 Le Wang writes: > >Kevin Reeder wrote: > > > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:14:10 -0800, Le Wang wrote: > > > >> XEmacs is a fine emacs. Use what you want. But PLEASE don't go > >> out of your way to antagonize people. > > > > I'm puzzled by this last remark not only because the newsgroup is > > titled GNU.emacs.help but also I'm wary of the delicate feelings > > connected with peoples' relationship with their editor and chose > > my words carefully. > > I have "delicate" feelings about both my emacsen. I think there are > plenty of people in the same boat. It's in my (and our) interest to > see both efforts continue and thrive. No. It is very much against anybody's interest to see both efforts continue and thrive separately. There are some matters that are better implemented in one version, and some matters that are nicer in the other. There are some things that are better documented in one, and some that are better in the other. Any programmer for serious applications needs to cater for both Emacsen. That means that he always has to program for the worst API in addition to the better API, and with the worst documentation from both Emacsen. This takes even more time and effort than if he was merely stuck with the worst from both Emacsen: programming for an additional API means additional work even if that additional API might be better and better documented, too (which it more often than not is not). If there was a completely different mindshare involved (like KDE/Qt/C++ vs GNOME/Gtk/C), applications would simply exist and be developed independent for both Emacsen. But as it is, important applications have to be made to run under both. And every nontrivial Emacs project has at least man-months of work wasted on the Emacs Schisma. I am not interested in assigning blame, and everybody will tell me his point of the story and how he is the good guy and the other the bad one, but I am not interested. I am just not going to swallow the lie that it is in the very best interest of all that every Emacs developer with nontrivial projects has to jump through all sorts of hoops to cater for two incarnations of Emacs. I don't see this change in my life time, but I am not going to applaud it. It's wasting my time as a free software developer, similarly like catering for Windows ports does. One does it in order not to cut a substantial user base off, but there is no fun in it. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum