From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David.Kastrup@t-online.de (David Kastrup) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Will default key bindings spell the death of Emacs? Date: 31 May 2003 22:19:47 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <3ED67422.7060305@math.ku.dk> <20030529214728.GA24984@gnu.org> <3ED68408.4080700@math.ku.dk> <20030529224526.GA5943@gnu.org> Reply-To: dak@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054412445 14494 80.91.224.249 (31 May 2003 20:20:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 20:20:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat May 31 22:20:40 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19MCqG-0003lD-00 for ; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:20:40 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19MD63-0007Lh-00 for ; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:36:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19MCqU-0004tL-F4 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:20:54 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19MCpy-0004jd-HR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19MCps-0004W2-Rl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:20:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19MCpl-0004FB-24; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:20:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 19MCpf-0001Mt-00; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:20:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (520018396234-0001@[217.80.160.65]) by fwd09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 19MCpT-0Kv5hAC; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:19:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4VKJmnY003499; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:19:48 +0200 Original-Received: (from dak@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h4VKJlZW003495; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:19:47 +0200 Original-To: Miles Bader In-Reply-To: <20030529224526.GA5943@gnu.org> Original-Lines: 40 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-Sender: 520018396234-0001@t-dialin.net Original-cc: Lars Hansen X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14527 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14527 Miles Bader writes: > On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 12:04:56AM +0200, Lars Hansen wrote: > > I do not argue that we should implement MS Windows-like > > keybindings. I just argue that it should be easyer to change key > > bindings. > > Ok, maybe I misread your post. What exactly are you arguing for? > Do you mean there should be a nicer user interface for users to edit > their personal keybindings? `Take some more tea,' the March Hare said to Alice, very earnestly. `I've had nothing yet,' Alice replied in an offended tone, `so I can't take more.' `You mean you can't take less,' said the Hatter: `it's very easy to take more than nothing.' Uh, we don't _have_ a user interface for users to edit their personal keybindings, nice or not. We have a programmer interface. While you nay call global-set-key interactively, it is nowhere in the menus, and of course any binding you make with it does not survive into the next session. And yes I know about repeat-complex-command and cut-and-paste from the minibuffer, but that is not really a user interface. A user interface is something like click with right mouse key on any menu entry and get a small submenu Bind-to-key locally Bind-to-key globally Save Keybinding Add function to menu Oh, of course, manipulating the menu entries with mouse clicks would probably be appreciated, too. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum