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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?
Date: 04 Dec 2003 16:44:16 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <x5wu9cvb8v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87smk0zl2w.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk>

Nic Ferrier <nferrier@tapsellferrier.co.uk> writes:

> > So changing Emacs' scopes to lexical is a prerequisite for any
> > meaningful attempt at multithreading, anyway.
> 
> Except that it's more important that Emacs uses dynamic scope than
> multi-threading. Dynamic scope is _one_ of the reasons Emacs has been
> sucessfull. 
> 
> rms wrote a paper about the design of Emacs which, I think,
> succesfully justifies the choice of dynamic scope:
> 
>   http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html

In this paper, Stallman writes

  It is not necessary for dynamic scope to be the only scope rule
  provided, just useful for it to be available.

And one has to realize the costs associated with dynamic scopes:
essentially it means that every function, no matter how large or
small, receives and uses the global binding table as an implicit
argument.  This has some principal advantages as those outlined by
Stallman in the paper.  It also has huge disadvantages where code
generation and verification are concerned.  Those disadvantages are
what makes the prospect of multithreading in connection with dynamical
scope unrealistic: there will always be contention and locking issues
with the universally accessed resource of the binding table.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

  reply	other threads:[~2003-12-04 15:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 133+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-11-16 21:46 Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Frank Schmitt
2003-11-17  0:49 ` Alex Schroeder
2003-11-17  4:06   ` Dhruva Krishnamurthy
2003-11-17  4:29     ` Miles Bader
2003-11-30 16:36       ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-11-30 18:01         ` Vinicius Jose Latorre
2003-11-30 18:39           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-11-30 18:12         ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2003-11-30 19:40         ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-01 16:04         ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-02 14:45           ` Ted Lemon
2003-12-02 15:48             ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:18               ` David Kastrup
2003-12-03 12:38                 ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:27               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-02 18:53                 ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-03 13:03                   ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:44             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 17:16           ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-03 17:58             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 23:38               ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 13:05                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 14:07                   ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 14:58                     ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-04 15:44                       ` David Kastrup [this message]
2003-12-04 16:17                     ` Kim F. Storm
2003-12-04 15:58                       ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-04 16:26                         ` non-blocking sockets (was Re: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Nic Ferrier
2003-12-05 11:35                           ` Kim F. Storm
2003-12-04 19:55                       ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 20:30                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-04 20:58                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 22:49                             ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-05 12:17                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 13:06                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-05 14:44                                 ` David Kastrup
2003-12-07 23:55                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08 16:54                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 17:09                                     ` David Kastrup
2003-12-08 18:10                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 22:02                                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-08 18:25                                     ` What's the problem? (Was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Luke Gorrie
2003-12-08 19:56                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 20:56                                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-08 22:09                                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-08 21:01                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08 19:57                                       ` What's the problem? Simon Josefsson
2003-12-09 23:45                                         ` Juri Linkov
2003-12-10  0:58                                           ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  4:35                                             ` Miles Bader
2003-12-10  5:38                                               ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  5:51                                                 ` Miles Bader
2003-12-10  6:34                                                   ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  7:19                                                     ` Miles Bader
2003-12-11 14:12                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-11 23:09                                                         ` Miles Bader
2003-12-12 23:55                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-13 16:11                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-13 17:29                                                             ` Jan D.
2003-12-13 17:35                                                             ` David Kastrup
2003-12-14  6:17                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-14 11:55                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2003-12-14 14:27                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-14 10:18                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-10  8:18                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-11 14:45                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-10 15:36                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-11  1:46                                                   ` Miles Bader
2003-12-12 23:54                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-11 18:39                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-11 18:48                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-12  3:27                                                   ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-12  3:57                                                     ` Miles Bader
2003-12-13 15:17                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-13  4:08                                                 ` Miles Bader
2003-12-13 23:14                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-14 13:12                                                   ` Emacs kill buffer Camm Maguire
2003-12-09 19:28                                       ` What's the problem? (Was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-09 22:02                                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-10  0:13                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-10  1:41                                             ` David Kastrup
2003-12-10  2:49                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-12  0:44                                                 ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-10  0:45                                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-10  2:55                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-09 19:32                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-09 22:13                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-10 15:16                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
     [not found]                                         ` <E1AUS6B-0006KH-Hq@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                           ` <4ny8tjryy8.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu>
     [not found]                                           ` <4nn09xm68c.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu>
2003-12-13 23:15                                             ` What's the problem? Richard Stallman
2003-12-14  3:21                                               ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05  8:58                             ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-05 11:58                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 12:12                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 20:37                                 ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-05 21:45                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08  0:10                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08  1:26                                     ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-04 17:22                   ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 18:01                     ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 18:31                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 19:26                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 22:05                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 20:18                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 23:00                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 12:06                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 13:16                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 21:30                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 14:46                           ` David Kastrup
2003-12-05 15:07                             ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 13:56                       ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2003-12-05 21:33                         ` non-blocking auto-save (was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 20:01             ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Nic Ferrier
2003-12-03 20:29               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-03 21:42                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-12-04  7:33                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-04 15:37                     ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-04 18:06                       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-04  7:33                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-04 13:14                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 15:41                   ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-06 20:58       ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07  0:15         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-07 14:52           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07 16:58             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-07  4:16         ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-07 14:53           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07 23:00             ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-11-17 19:31 ` Richard Stallman
2003-11-17 22:53   ` David Masterson
2003-11-18  5:57     ` Miles Bader
2003-11-20 19:19       ` David Masterson
2003-11-22 21:19         ` Richard Stallman
2003-11-18  6:52     ` John Wiegley

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