What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[R. Readi]

I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see an
awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an annoying
blinking cursor. As I loaded it in my new server without X, it loaded
jpeg as dependency, why the hell this?

Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

Rodrigo
scire_AT_web.de

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Marco Parrone]

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"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:

> I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see an
> awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an annoying
> blinking cursor. As I loaded it in my new server without X, it loaded
> jpeg as dependency, why the hell this?

If you want not GUI, jpeg dependencies, and other things, compile it
from sources, and give the arguments you want to the configure script
(read the file INSTALL and/or do "./configure --help").
 
> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

Yes, search and install an old version.

- -- 
Marco Parrone - marc0@autistici.org
www.autistici.org/marc0
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Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[R. Readi]

> If you want not GUI, jpeg dependencies, and other things, compile it
> from sources, and give the arguments you want to the configure script
> (read the file INSTALL and/or do "./configure --help").

I will try!


> > Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?
>
> Yes, search and install an old version.

Nice answer! Indeed, there were a point, at which better would have
been not to add any "feature", only correct bugs or make the code
faster.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[John Russell]

"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:

> > If you want not GUI, jpeg dependencies, and other things, compile it
> > from sources, and give the arguments you want to the configure script
> > (read the file INSTALL and/or do "./configure --help").
> 
> I will try!
> 
> 
> > > Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?
> >
> > Yes, search and install an old version.
> 
> Nice answer! Indeed, there were a point, at which better would have
> been not to add any "feature", only correct bugs or make the code
> faster.

I'm sure the 70's were a blast.  Welcome to the future.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Adam]

On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 18:02 Atlantic/Reykjavik, R. Readi wrote:

>> If you want not GUI, jpeg dependencies, and other things, compile it
>> from sources, and give the arguments you want to the configure script
>> (read the file INSTALL and/or do "./configure --help").
>
> I will try!
>
>
>>> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?
>>
>> Yes, search and install an old version.
>
> Nice answer! Indeed, there were a point, at which better would have
> been not to add any "feature", only correct bugs or make the code
> faster.

You english make one head hurts     :)

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[R. Readi]

> You english make one head hurts     :)

Thanks. It is a new weapon. Antidote: read german.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Stefan Monnier]

> I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see an
> awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an annoying
> blinking cursor.

C-h N will tell you all about how to disable those things.

> As I loaded it in my new server without X, it loaded
> jpeg as dependency, why the hell this?

That's because of how the packagers of your distribution built it.
Maybe they have a emacs-nox package ?  Otherwise, you can of course
build it yourself and choose whether you want gif and/or jpeg and/or
tiff and/or sound and/or ...

> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

Try to build it without support for Xwindows.


        Stefan

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Miles Bader]

"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:
> Nice answer! Indeed, there were a point, at which better would have
> been not to add any "feature", only correct bugs or make the code
> faster.

I'm sure that some people think that emacs 18/19/20 are the ultimate
interface, and should never be changed; however, many will vehemently
disagree.

Luckily, emacs is configurable enough to make both sets of users happy,
I think.

-Miles
-- 
Suburbia: where they tear out the trees and then name streets after them.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Ivan Kanis]

    R> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

You can turn off all of the frills with the customization. You can
turn off the popups, the toolbar, the scrollbar even the menu.

To get you started stick this in your .emacs file

; turn off context sensitive help
(tooltip-mode -1)

; Turn off scroll-bar
(scroll-bar-mode nil)

And that in your .Xresources file

! emacs
Emacs.toolBar: 0


-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
|    "Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes.     |       Ivan Kanis      |
|    Well aimed slingshots can topple giants."        |    ivank@juliva.com   |
|    (Maggie Kuhn)                                    |     www.juliva.com    |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I
   see an awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an
   annoying blinking cursor. As I loaded it in my new server without
   X, it loaded jpeg as dependency, why the hell this?

   Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

Yes, the current version of Emacs and some Emacs LISP code.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[R. Readi]

Thanks everybody for your tipps, I will try them.

Stefan, you write: "Try to build it without support for Xwindows."

Well, this is exactly the border. Indeed I like till now to use emacs in
the console. I learned emacs with an old vt100 terminal, and it made from
my old hardware a powerfull  tool for my requirements, so that I didnt
miss X and began to use it very late. On the other side, I need the X
capabilities even if I didnt install an X server in the computer: I want
to open emacs windows in another computer having it through the net.

Regards,
Rodrigo.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Alan Mackenzie]

Grüß von Giesing!

R. Readi <no@spam.de> wrote on Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:44:46 +0200:

> I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see an
> awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an annoying
> blinking cursor. As I loaded it in my new server without X, it loaded
> jpeg as dependency, why the hell this?

> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

Well, I find Emacs 21.1[*] does me very well.  I run it on a Linux tty
(41 lines by 134 columns) with no mouse, no menu, no scroll bar, no need
to faff around with Xresources to get a readable font, no jpegs, .no gifs
:-), no distractions at all, but with coloured text.

All I did was to get the source code, build it by accepting all the
default options and it was fine.  OK, my cursor blinks, but that's
Linux's thing, not Emacs's.

Like somebody else said, get the source and build your own version.  When
_that_ isn't exactly what you want, play around until it is.

[*] 21.3 is now available.

> Rodrigo
> scire_AT_web.de

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: aacm@muuc.dee; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Kai Großjohann]

"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:

> Well, this is exactly the border. Indeed I like till now to use emacs in
> the console. I learned emacs with an old vt100 terminal, and it made from
> my old hardware a powerfull  tool for my requirements, so that I didnt
> miss X and began to use it very late. On the other side, I need the X
> capabilities even if I didnt install an X server in the computer: I want
> to open emacs windows in another computer having it through the net.

If you need X sometimes, then you can still use "emacs -nw" to avoid
using X for a specific session.

-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Bijan Soleymani]

"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:

> miss X and began to use it very late. On the other side, I need the X
> capabilities even if I didnt install an X server in the computer: I want
> to open emacs windows in another computer having it through the net.


If you can use Xforwarding you should be able to use ssh or telnet to
run the non-X version over the network. Emacs will be a lot faster.


Bijan

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Tim X]

"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:

> I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see an
> awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an annoying
> blinking cursor. As I loaded it in my new server without X, it loaded
> jpeg as dependency, why the hell this?
> 
> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?
> 
> Rodrigo
> scire_AT_web.de
> 

The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out how to get
rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and rebuilt it without image
support. I now have emacs21 which looks similar to older emacs, but
with the nicer font-lock support, additional useful modes and
features.

>From memory, I think I found out all the info I needed either in the
etc/NEWS or etc/PROBLEMS file which come with the distribution and
used an argument to configure when building emacs to disable image
support.

Tim
-- 
Tim Cross
The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is
to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you 
really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Francois Fleuret]

Hi,

Rodrigo "upset by the blinking cursor" Readi wrote:

> I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see
> an awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an
> annoying blinking cursor.

Even if I share your taste for spartan interfaces, my emacs 21.3 looks
pretty decent to me.

Try to put in your .Xressources:

Emacs.menuBar:          off
Emacs.verticalScrollBars:       off
Emacs.toolBar:          off

Or/and in your .emacs.el:

(menu-bar-mode -1)
(scroll-bar-mode -1)
(tool-bar-mode -1)
(blink-cursor-mode -1)
(set-face-attribute mode-line nil :box nil)

If you are an happy 21.3.5 user, I'd even suggest

(fringe-mode 0)

Best regards,

-- 
François Fleuret

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[R. Readi]

> Alan Mackenzie wrote: OK, my cursor blinks, but that is Linux's thing, not
Emacs's.

Try "http://www.perlpress.com/noblink/linux.html". That with echo works.

Regards,
Rodrigo.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[R. Readi]

Francois Fleuret wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Rodrigo "upset by the blinking cursor" Readi wrote:
>
> > I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see
> > an awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an
> > annoying blinking cursor.
>
> Even if I share your taste for spartan interfaces, my emacs 21.3 looks
> pretty decent to me.
>
> Try to put in your .Xressources:

Thanks, I will try first rebuild, and this in computers I am no root.
Yes, I like spartan interfaces, I get sick with too much unnecessary
things arround, but not only: I like to recycle old hardware, that is why
I dont have infinite disc space and ram.

Rodrigo.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Adam]

>  I like to recycle old hardware, that is why
> I dont have infinite disc space and ram.
>
> Rodrigo.

I recommend Micro Emacs or Nano Emacs if you just edit text and have 
really old hardware.  You wont be able to grill a steak with them but 
they are small and fast(relatively).

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Lee Sau Dan]

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:

    Tim> The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out
    Tim> how to get rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and
    Tim> rebuilt it without image support. 

That's also what I did a few years ago when I moved to Emacs 20.

Did you leap from Emacs 19.34 to Emacs 21, skip the 20th era?


    Tim> I now have emacs21 which looks similar to older emacs, but
    Tim> with the nicer font-lock support, additional useful modes and
    Tim> features.

Me too!   I'm running it  in X, but  I've removed the stupid  tool bar
that  wastes so  much space.   Font-lock is  great --  to bad  that it
didn't arrive until Emacs 21 (or  XEmacs 20).  That has been what kept
me away from tty Emacs (unless I can't get anything better).  Now with
Emacs 21,  I won't feel handicapped  when I work with  Emacs on simple
tty.



-- 
Lee Sau Dan                     李守敦(Big5)                    ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) 

E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[John Russell]

Francois Fleuret <francois.fleuret@inria.fr> writes:

> 
> If you are an happy 21.3.5 user, I'd even suggest
> 
> (fringe-mode 0)
> 

I tried this.  How do you know if a line wrapped around if you get
rid of the fringe?

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[David Kastrup]

"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:

> I liked Emacs very much, it was almost my only editor, and now I see an
> awfull GUI with a stupic JPEG picture and icons, and with an annoying
> blinking cursor. As I loaded it in my new server without X, it loaded
> jpeg as dependency, why the hell this?
> 
> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

If you paused for a moment in your consternation, you would notice
that the startup screens contains an entry about how to access the
NEWS file containing the description of new features (including how
to disable them).

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[David Kastrup]

Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:

> The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out how to
> get rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and rebuilt it without
> image support.

What does the last buy you except make it completely impossible to
use something like <URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>?

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Niels Freimann]

> Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
> > get rid of the toolbar, 
>"R. Readi" <no@spam.de> writes:
> Is there any purist version of Emacs for the old Emacs fans?

there are older versions available. The directory listing of 
ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/emacs shows tarballs with 18, 19, and
2x20 releases. 

Furthermore there are nice toolbar-blinking-cursor-image-support-free-emacsens 
like zile and many other.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Mario Domgörgen]

Niels Freimann <nfreimann@firemail.de> writes:

> Furthermore there are nice toolbar-blinking-cursor-image-support-free-emacsens 
> like zile and many other.

Why is everbody here speaking here of the blinking cursor? One M-x
blink-cursor-mode and i don't see a blinking cursor here
anymore... *wonder*

Mario

-- 
Out of memory.
We wish to hold the whole sky,
But we never will.

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Adam]

(rtfm-mode nil)

On Monday, Apr 7, 2003, at 13:08 Atlantic/Reykjavik, Mario Domgörgen 
wrote:

> Niels Freimann <nfreimann@firemail.de> writes:
>
>> Furthermore there are nice 
>> toolbar-blinking-cursor-image-support-free-emacsens
>> like zile and many other.
>
> Why is everbody here speaking here of the blinking cursor? One M-x
> blink-cursor-mode and i don't see a blinking cursor here
> anymore... *wonder*
>
> Mario
>
> -- 
> Out of memory.
> We wish to hold the whole sky,
> But we never will.
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
>

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Tim X]

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
> 
> > The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out how to
> > get rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and rebuilt it without
> > image support.
> 
> What does the last buy you except make it completely impossible to
> use something like <URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>?
> 
> -- 
> David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

I don't need it - I'm a blind user and ALL forms of graphics are a
total waste of time for me. 


-- 
Tim Cross
The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is
to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you 
really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[David Kastrup]

Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:

> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
> > 
> > > The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out how to
> > > get rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and rebuilt it without
> > > image support.
> > 
> > What does the last buy you except make it completely impossible to
> > use something like <URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>?
> 
> I don't need it - I'm a blind user and ALL forms of graphics are a
> total waste of time for me. 

A detail worth mentioning.  Is there an advantage of using a window
environment at all in that case?  I would imagine that it would not
buy you anything over a pure tty Emacs.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Phillip Lord]

>>>>> "David" == David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

  David> Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:

  >> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
  >>
  >> > Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
  >> >
  >> > > The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out
  >> > > how
  >> > >to get rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and rebuilt it
  >> > >without image support.
  >> >  What does the last buy you except make it completely
  >> >  impossible
  >> >to use something like
  >> ><URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>?
  >> I don't need it - I'm a blind user and ALL forms of graphics are
  >> a total waste of time for me.

  David> A detail worth mentioning.  Is there an advantage of using a
  David> window environment at all in that case?  I would imagine that
  David> it would not buy you anything over a pure tty Emacs.

It depends how he is using Emacs. An emacspeak interface would work
well within both. However there is still an advantage to using a
windowing version of emacs, as simply moving between the emacs window
and other windows will be easier, as it will have the correct title,
that is "emacs" instead of "xterm", or "command prompt" or whatever. 

Most of the speech interfaces out there do actually reflect the visual
interface. Many of the windows ones for instance, when they are
reading text will only read what is actually on screen. Hence the
blind user still needs functionality to minimize and maximize windows,
rather than just move between them, even though you might have though
this was a purely visual cue.

Cheers

Phil

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Lee Sau Dan]

>>>>> "David" == David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

    David> A detail worth mentioning.  Is there an advantage of using
    David> a window environment at all in that case?  I would imagine
    David> that it would not buy you anything over a pure tty Emacs.

pure tty Emacs is windowed.  Ctrl-x 2 and you'll see 2 windows.

Please  don't   equate  "window"  (and  "easy  of   use")  with  those
resource-wasting high-calorie  content eye-candies.  And  don't get me
wrong, I'm not blind nor colour-blind.  But I did play with emacsspeak
(with IBM's free software voice synthesizer) and was quite impressed!


-- 
Lee Sau Dan                     李守敦(Big5)                    ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) 

E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Lee Sau Dan]

>>>>> "Phillip" == Phillip Lord <p.lord@russet.org.uk> writes:

    Phillip> It depends how he is using Emacs. An emacspeak interface
    Phillip> would work well within both. However there is still an
    Phillip> advantage to using a windowing version of emacs, as
    Phillip> simply moving between the emacs window and other windows
    Phillip> will be easier, as it will have the correct title, that
    Phillip> is "emacs" instead of "xterm", or "command prompt" or
    Phillip> whatever.

Wouldn't the command  prompt (and many other programs)  be enhanced by
being run  from within  an Emacs window?   At least,  Emacsspeak would
handle these without further configurations!  :)


    Phillip> Most of the speech interfaces out there do actually
    Phillip> reflect the visual interface. Many of the windows ones
    Phillip> for instance, when they are reading text will only read
    Phillip> what is actually on screen. Hence the blind user still
    Phillip> needs functionality to minimize and maximize windows,
    Phillip> rather than just move between them, even though you might
    Phillip> have though this was a purely visual cue.

I hope there won't be  3-D animated colourful icons on their desktops.
(And  a  dancing paperclip  would  certainly  be  confusing for  these
people.)


-- 
Lee Sau Dan                     李守敦(Big5)                    ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) 

E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[David Kastrup]

Lee Sau Dan <danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:

> >>>>> "David" == David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> 
>     David> A detail worth mentioning.  Is there an advantage of using
>     David> a window environment at all in that case?  I would imagine
>     David> that it would not buy you anything over a pure tty Emacs.
> 
> pure tty Emacs is windowed.  Ctrl-x 2 and you'll see 2 windows.

What exactly about "window environment" do you not understand?  It is
pretty much a standing term.

> Please don't equate "window" (and "easy of use")

"easy of use"?  Whatever you say.  BTW, the original poster quite
clearly stated that he removed images from his Emacs configuration.
He could even more easily remove non-tty support, but obviously chose
not to.  I asked him as the involved person without sight for the
reason, and all you can think of is a tirade.

> with those resource-wasting high-calorie content eye-candies.

> And don't get me wrong, I'm not blind nor colour-blind.

Yet you presume to answer for a blind person that has chosen to
compile Emacs with X support.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Phillip Lord]

>>>>> "Lee" == Lee Sau Dan <danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:

>>>>> "Phillip" == Phillip Lord <p.lord@russet.org.uk> writes:

  Phillip> It depends how he is using Emacs. An emacspeak interface
  Phillip> would work well within both. However there is still an
  Phillip> advantage to using a windowing version of emacs, as simply
  Phillip> moving between the emacs window and other windows will be
  Phillip> easier, as it will have the correct title, that is "emacs"
  Phillip> instead of "xterm", or "command prompt" or whatever.

  Lee> Wouldn't the command prompt (and many other programs) be
  Lee> enhanced by being run from within an Emacs window?  At least,
  Lee> Emacsspeak would handle these without further configurations!
  Lee> :)

Maybe. People like to interact with the computers in different
ways. Emacspeak's "do everything within emacs" is good for some, poor
for others. 


  Phillip> Most of the speech interfaces out there do actually reflect
  Phillip> the visual interface. Many of the windows ones for
  Phillip> instance, when they are reading text will only read what is
  Phillip> actually on screen. Hence the blind user still needs
  Phillip> functionality to minimize and maximize windows, rather than
  Phillip> just move between them, even though you might have though
  Phillip> this was a purely visual cue.

  Lee> I hope there won't be 3-D animated colourful icons on their
  Lee> desktops.  (And a dancing paperclip would certainly be
  Lee> confusing for these people.)


How do you know what is confusing for "these people"? Actually this is
one of emacspeaks's major difficulties. T.V.Raman, who is the main
author is blind, and emacspeak reflects this. Most of the users of
screen reading technology are not blind, but partially sighted. While
much of the input comes audibly, those with some sight often use if
profitably, for determining, for example, which window they have
selected. While the full glory of the dancing paperclip might not be
useful, that it is obvious, and reasonably clearly differentiable from
the rest of the screen, might make the paperclip useful. 

Its easy for the fully sighted person to make assumptions about what
is, and what is not good for the visually impaired. These assumptions
are often wrong. 


Cheers

Phil

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Tim X]

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
> 
> > David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> > 
> > > Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
> > > 
> > > > The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out how to
> > > > get rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and rebuilt it without
> > > > image support.
> > > 
> > > What does the last buy you except make it completely impossible to
> > > use something like <URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>?
> > 
> > I don't need it - I'm a blind user and ALL forms of graphics are a
> > total waste of time for me. 
> 
> A detail worth mentioning.  

Didn't think it was relevant since the original poster was asking
about how to make their emacs 21 like older emacs.

> Is there an advantage of using a window
> environment at all in that case?  I would imagine that it would not
> buy you anything over a pure tty Emacs.

Frames for one, which I find more convenient than constantly splitting
and switching windows. Sawfish makes this easy to integrate and ensure
you have full screens etc. Also, there are some programs which only
work well under a windowing environment (e.g. real player) which I
like to use plus it use to be a lot easier to setup so that you had
more characters and lines per screen than you could get in a tty. I
also got use to X when I was working on pure X workstations where you
didn't have the option of a tty.

Tim

-- 
Tim Cross
The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is
to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you 
really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[David Kastrup]

Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:

> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
> > 
> > > David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> > > 
> > > > Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:
> > > > 
> > > > > The first thing I did when moving to emacs 21 was finid out
> > > > > how to get rid of the toolbar, the blinking cursor and
> > > > > rebuilt it without image support.
> > > > 
> > > > What does the last buy you except make it completely impossible to
> > > > use something like <URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>?
> > > 
> > > I don't need it - I'm a blind user and ALL forms of graphics are a
> > > total waste of time for me. 
> > 
> > A detail worth mentioning.  
> 
> Didn't think it was relevant since the original poster was asking
> about how to make their emacs 21 like older emacs.
> 
> > Is there an advantage of using a window
> > environment at all in that case?  I would imagine that it would not
> > buy you anything over a pure tty Emacs.
> 
> Frames for one, which I find more convenient than constantly
> splitting and switching windows.

tty Emacsen do have frames: try C-x 5 2.  I can't judge their utility
for blind people, of course.

> plus it use to be a lot easier to setup so that you had more
> characters and lines per screen than you could get in a tty.

Well, if you are running a tty Emacs in an X term, that should not be
too much of an issue.

Of course, the bottom line is that you will use what works for best
for you.  Thanks for the info!

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: What did you do with Emacs!!!!!

[Hubert Chan]

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>>>>> "Tim" == Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:

[...]

Tim> Frames for one, which I find more convenient than constantly
Tim> splitting and switching windows.

I use windows.el, which basically gives you virtual desktop-like
functionality in emacs, more or less.  It allows you to use, e.g. C-c
C-w 1, C-c C-w 2, etc. to switch between work spaces.  I know there are
a few other packages that do the same thing.

http://www.gentei.org/~yuuji/software/windows.el

-- 
Hubert Chan <hubert@uhoreg.ca> - http://www.uhoreg.ca/
PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/124B61FA
Fingerprint: 96C5 012F 5F74 A5F7 1FF7  5291 AF29 C719 124B 61FA
Key available at wwwkeys.pgp.net.   Encrypted e-mail preferred.

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