From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David.Kastrup@t-online.de (David Kastrup) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: Re: configure script Date: 13 Jun 2002 10:29:20 +0200 Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <61D0BADD.74BBFB3A.B8B383E9@netscape.net> <200206081915.g58JFT128804@aztec.santafe.edu> <538dgukrilgffka0tdkddf7hdph4i9b5va@4ax.com> <87fzzs6wgp.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu> <87u1o85cj1.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1023957198 21596 127.0.0.1 (13 Jun 2002 08:33:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:33:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: gnu-emacs-bug@prep.ai.mit.edu Return-path: Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17IQ2f-0005cC-00 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:33:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 17IQ2Z-0001Re-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 04:33:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mailout08.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.20]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 17IQ0Q-0001JS-00 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 04:30:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17IQ0O-0006Lz-0A; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:30:56 +0200 Original-Received: from tupik.goethe.zz (520018396234-0001@[217.80.157.170]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 17IQ09-1K1nXcC; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:30:41 +0200 Original-Received: (from dak@localhost) by tupik.goethe.zz (8.11.6/linuxconf) id g5D8TLG01710; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:29:21 +0200 Original-To: ams@kemisten.nu (Alfred M. Szmidt) In-Reply-To: <87u1o85cj1.fsf@lgh163a.kemisten.nu> Original-Lines: 102 X-Sender: 520018396234-0001@t-dialin.net Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:1990 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bugs:1990 ams@kemisten.nu (Alfred M. Szmidt) writes: > * David Kastrup writes: > > ams@kemisten.nu (Alfred M. Szmidt) writes: > >> * David Kastrup writes: > > Wrong. The name is what the one putting it together calls it. It is > > a GNU system, you might also call it a GNU/Linux system, but it is > > not just "GNU/Linux" just as I am not just "Kastrup". I have a given > > name. > > It is not an GNU system, it is an system based on GNU, thus > GNU/Linux. Nope. It is a GNU system, according to the criteria RMS has set out for such a system. It consists of entirely Free Software. Some of this has been collected from freely available sources elsewhere, some has been specifically done in the frame of the GNU project, some of it (kernel, system, networking) has been specifically done in order to complete the system freely. That is what RMS defined and set out to achieve as a GNU system. RMS himself calls GNU/Linux a "deviant GNU system". > The GNU system is GNU/Hurd. Linus did _not_ put together the system, > the GNU project did. Could you please stop accusing people of things they never said? Nobody said Linus put together the system. The assembly of the system is done by others, system integrators. When GNU/Linux systems first came about, that was a very large chore, with root kits, system disks, modified hand-crafted libraries, patched utilities, a complete set of new system utilities and networking stuff and so on. Since by now the system libraries and utilities have been extended to play together well with Linux, the task has become considerably easier. > >> > A painting is named by painter, not by the paint manufacturer. > >> > Regardless how good or indispensible the paints have been for the > >> > work. > >> > >> If a painting is named by the painter, then RMS has all the right to > >> name the "painting", Linus' _ONLY_ contribution was Linux, You still don't get it. Linus has named the kernel "Linux". He does not mind what distribution vendors name their system. If you think that their work is negligible, then please explain why at least 98% of all installed GNU/Linux systems running are installed from some distribution. People should be able to just get and install a GNU/Linux system from sources if it is that easy. We are not talking about Linus right to name the kernel. We are talking about the distributors right to name their distribution. Debian calls their system Debian GNU/Linux. This is a mark of quality: they have strict criteria of what may or not may be in the core part of their stuff. Other distributions choose other names. In fact, I would find it offensive if distribution vendors including proprietary components (like Caldera) called their systems GNU/Linux. It is not in the GNU spirit. > > And that's what he named "Linux". And RMS does not object to that. > > He objects to distribution creators to call their systems Linux > > systems. > > Because they are not Linux systems, there is no such thing as an Linux > system. Linus contributed the kernel, not the system, We are not talking about Linus. You don't get it. > that is was what the GNU project did. We are talking about who put the system together and assembled it, and designed it (file system layout, stuff to include, packaging system and database and so on). There is even a Linux Standard Base effort that decides where all stuff ought to go. The GNU utilities can easily be made to follow the standards, because they were _designed_ to be used as components. They fit into a _host_ of different environments which don't get called GNU/Solaris, GNU/AIX, GNU/Windows, GNU/HPUX when one has replaced all of the core components with the (in almost all cases superior) GNU components. > > > This is all according to you, and what you claim RMS said. I would have referred you to the "letters by readers" section of the just appeared Linux Weekly News, where we had this exchange. Alas, it seems that the editors have chosen to cut the published part of the exchange off before RMS clarified those points. While he clearly intended the material to be fit for publishing at least in that forum, I would not want to publicly post it elsewhere before asking his permission. > > Oh, you mean that when you start any GNU utility, the nasty Linux > > distributors have cut away all of the startup messages and logos > > referring to GNU? That's a new one to me. > > Linux distributors, distribute an kernel, not an operating system. Nice discussion tactics. First claim nonsense, then don't answer the retort, but rather pick some other stupid detail to nitpick about. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum Email: David.Kastrup@t-online.de