From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:27:19 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: References: <874qf8d3cy.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <878y4jiij7.fsf@verizon.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111260493 8841 80.91.229.2 (19 Mar 2005 19:28:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:28:13 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 19 20:28:13 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCjcA-0007jF-SK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:28:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCjsv-00014A-6a for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:45:21 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 38 Original-X-Trace: individual.net P+9hO/3eQwXya5DihDVXUAHDZeX17drO0WC8IOjgRzcbLw896H X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:hfwFJXkbi/WivXNiEY9GxEZkGLw= Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:129431 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:24986 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:24986 Shawn Betts writes: > Emacs is self consistent. Good Emacs programs follow The Emacs > Way. Changing some common keybindings might help newbs to stick with > it a bit longer, but pretty soon they'll hit the next layer. These > newbs still haven't learned how everything works together nor have > they become fimiliar with Emacs key bindings. So do you keep > disfiguring Emacs to hide from them the AWFUL truth? When does it > end? Eventually they'll HAVE learn how to use Emacs the way it was > intended. And I sure hope so! Emacs keybindings are WAY better. Actually, they are scattered all over the keyboard regardless of the layout, particularly for basic cursor movement. They are intended to be somewhat mnemonic, but they are not easy on the wrist. RSI is a recurring theme with major Emacs hackers. vi bindings, at least on a standard American keyboard, make more ergonomic sense, apart from being shifted one position off home row for 10 finger typists. But whether they are better or not, they are a complex and consistent scheme, and changing them is not something you can do in a minute. > Its not Emacs that has to change. Its their minds. Your time is > better spent erecting billboards telling ppl how insanely great > Emacs is than convincing Emacs hackers they should smash holes in > their Perfect System for fools. Oh, Emacs has changed all the time over years to accommodate more users and in particular beginners. Don't fall for the propagandists that tell you otherwise simply because not everybody jumps with glee at their proposals. It takes time getting used to Emacs, but this is getting much more tolerable than it was at one time. Emacs has survived a slew of operating systems and keybinding trends over the years, and there are more to come. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum