From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Petteri Hintsanen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: c-ts-mode Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 22:58:22 +0300 Message-ID: References: <5F73CB5D-DB00-439F-AD7C-7E209EC83A35@gmail.com> <83jzt2z5mk.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1hhykni.fsf@gnu.org> <877cp1lvih.fsf@gmail.com> <83v8clyhqi.fsf@gnu.org> <83tts5ygv2.fsf@gnu.org> <83msxxxkc0.fsf@gnu.org> <871qf9ktxd.fsf@gmail.com> <838r9gykia.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7076"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , theo@thornhill.no, casouri@gmail.com, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 09 08:05:44 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qer6G-0001eW-Oz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 Sep 2023 08:05:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qer5y-00014C-P6; Sat, 09 Sep 2023 02:05:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qehco-00036D-5d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 15:58:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.kapsi.fi ([2001:67c:1be8::25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qehcl-0002Ca-Hb; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 15:58:41 -0400 Original-Received: from kapsi.fi ([2001:67c:1be8::11] helo=lakka.kapsi.fi) by mail.kapsi.fi with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1qehcU-00DmsY-1k; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 22:58:23 +0300 Original-Received: from phintsan by lakka.kapsi.fi with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1qehcU-004TYk-6P; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 22:58:22 +0300 In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora=22's?= message of "Fri, 8 Sep 2023 13:38:58 +0100") X-Rspam-Score: -3.1 (---) X-Rspam-Report: Action: no action Symbol: RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00) Symbol: ARC_NA(0.00) Symbol: BAYES_HAM(-3.00) Symbol: FROM_HAS_DN(0.00) Symbol: TO_DN_SOME(0.00) Symbol: FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00) Symbol: TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00) Symbol: MIME_GOOD(-0.10) Symbol: DMARC_NA(0.00) Symbol: R_SPF_NEUTRAL(0.00) Symbol: RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00) Symbol: NEURAL_HAM(0.00) Symbol: FREEMAIL_TO(0.00) Symbol: FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00) Symbol: R_DKIM_NA(0.00) Symbol: MIME_TRACE(0.00) Symbol: ASN(0.00) Symbol: FREEMAIL_CC(0.00) Symbol: MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00) Symbol: RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00) Message-ID: x2mzg1w4eu9.fsf@iki.fi X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2001:67c:1be8::11 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: petterih@iki.fi X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on mail.kapsi.fi); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Received-SPF: neutral client-ip=2001:67c:1be8::25; envelope-from=petterih@iki.fi; helo=mail.kapsi.fi X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 09 Sep 2023 02:05:14 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310382 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > Maybe in the past CC Mode's styles were very useful, but I don't > think they attract the same interest today because there are these > external tools. For the same reason, I don't predict ts > indentation styles to become widely used. I have to disagree with this. Built-in styles are useful, and for me they have been, in all major modes I've used (not just CC mode), close enough for almost all use cases over the years. I use external tools like clang-format only to satisfy some CI systems that (IMO stupidly) enforce certain formatting. In general I'd find it a bit disconcerting if the tendency is to move towards external stuff for basics like syntax highlighting and code formatting. I personally don't like the idea of installing a couple of libraries plus their emacs glue libs, source code formatters along with their dependencies, and huge language servers [*], to get first class "editing experience" -- Emacs is supposedly a text editor, after all. Especially given that I've got to install and use Emacs on resource limited machines and ones where I do not have admin rights, so I cannot install those externals just like that. It is great that Emacs is able to leverage the power of third party libs and tools, but I think this should not come at the expense of built in functionality. Of course the rant above was a rhetoric exaggeration, but still it is perhaps something to keep in mind when designing for the future. Thanks, Petteri [*] e.g. clangd eats regularly gigabytes of memory, has tons of dependencies, and needs tunings for the build and sysroot and whatnot