From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CVS HEAD fails to build on OSX 10.4 (macterm.c broken?) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:28:05 +0900 Organization: Faculty of Science, Chiba University Message-ID: References: <86k5re4blv.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200708291531.l7TFVnlD010335@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <86fy224aah.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <86bqcq4a4q.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200708291604.l7TG4atk011108@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <867ine492x.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <863ay24826.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <200708291641.l7TGfo2t012413@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200708310812.l7V8Cgq9022040@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <86lkbnygii.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <46DC1EF6.1040002@gnu.org> <874pi8mjah.GNU's_Not_Unix!%yavor@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1189067304 25913 80.91.229.12 (6 Sep 2007 08:28:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:28:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Yavor Doganov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 06 10:28:22 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ITCiq-00065U-GA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:28:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITCio-0007oK-Em for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:28:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1ITCij-0007kn-AY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:28:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1ITCii-0007il-4v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:28:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITCii-0007iV-1H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:28:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp ([133.82.132.2]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1ITCid-0006oo-Ey; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:28:07 -0400 Original-Received: from church.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (church [133.82.132.36]) by mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7BB2C43; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:28:05 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <874pi8mjah.GNU's_Not_Unix!%yavor@gnu.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?UTF-8?B?U2hpasKSwqjDtA==?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/23.0.50 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) X-Detected-Kernel: NetBSD 3.0 (DF) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:77956 Archived-At: >>>>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:53:26 +0300, Yavor Doganov said: --text follows this line-- > FWIW, (probably a well known fact) -- the GNUstep project has > absolutely no plans to implement Carbon, even before Apple's > announcement which finally made it clear that using Carbon should be > discouraged. Even the Cocoa/GNUstep port uses Carbon (CoreGraphics) routines for drawing texts on Mac. And I don't think Apple is discouraging whole of the Carbon, as they are to introduce new frameworks such as CoreText. Also, some features such as Apple event support can't go without Carbon. Finally, there's no reason (for me) to avoid the use of existing Carbon code that I'm really familiar with and also many users have already tested. > So unless the plans of your Carbon+AppKit port are to get rid of > Carbon at some point, it is not an option for us (GNUstep users). > It is not about a conflict or competition between these two ports, > we just don't have an option if the alternative port is useless for > GNUstep. This is more than unfortunate given the fact that we've > been waiting for years for the merge of the unicode branch, hoping > that the GNUstep merge will follow shortly afterwards. I think I've rather said something more advantageous to the inclusion of the Cocoa/GNUstep port to Emacs 23: I said I would quit the development of the Carbon port for Emacs 23, and proposed the inclusion of the Carbon+AppKit port to (later versions of) Emacs 22, not to Emacs 23. > Of course, you are the one to decide what to do with your free time; > I just regret that the most active developer on that front has a > different vision that doesn't include GNUstep. GNUstep is too much for me. One of the most difficult tasks about the Carbon+AppKit port was to absorb the difference between multiple versions of Mac OS X, and adding more platforms exceeds my ability (I've just started to learn Cocoa and Objective-C in July). YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp