From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes 2009-07-15/16 in branch? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:20:46 +0900 Organization: Faculty of Science, Chiba University Message-ID: References: <4A692E0A.9060108@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248664904 21516 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2009 03:21:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 03:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: adrian.b.robert@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, jasonr@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 27 05:21:36 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MVGmO-0003KM-4J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 05:21:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55596 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVGmN-0007ty-Cs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:21:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVGlp-0007Wv-9x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:21:01 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVGlk-0007Rl-JU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:21:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44052 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVGlk-0007RV-En for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:20:56 -0400 Original-Received: from ntp.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp ([133.82.132.2]:63022 helo=mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVGlg-0003qF-Br; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:20:52 -0400 Original-Received: from church.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (church [133.82.132.36]) by mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A362C40; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:20:46 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: NetBSD 3.0 (DF) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113198 Archived-At: >>>>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:44:38 -0400, Richard Stallman said: > They sound like a really important policy change: allowing a > proprietary platform to be the first one to have features that > are not specific to the platform. Are you sure? > I don't think that description applies to these things. I would > call them adaptations of existing features to fit the platform. I don't think so. > Specifying colors with a slightly different format is not > particularly useful except for compatibility with MacOS. If we ever > find that discourages someone from moving away from the Macintosh, > we could make Emacs accept those formats on other platforms -- it > won'tbe hard -- but I doubt that will happen. These NS-port-specific formats are not what's defined by Apple, IIUC. They are arbitrarily defined by the author. Different format is actually a problem of compatibility, but not so important for the GNU policy. What I'm concerning about with respect to the GNU policy is the "alpha-component" (or maybe "alpha-channel" is more familiar) support, which was added only for Cocoa. Alpha-component/alpha-channel controls translucency of colors by specifying how opaque it is. This feature is not specific to NS or Cocoa: X11 can do this with cairo and/or some extensions, but it is not yet implemented for Emacs on free platforms at all. > As for tiling instead of stippling, perhaps I have misunderstood. > Do you think some users will see that as a feature? What Miles pointed out as "never really worked correctly" does not mean X11 does tiling instead of stippling. X11 actually does stippling, but you will soon see some inconsistent result if you apply pictorial stippling to large area and do some editing: (set-face-stipple 'default "eschernot") On the other hand, tiling support for X11 has been controversial about its inclusion, and it has not been added to the main line whereas there has been an implementation by Miles Bader for a long time. I don't understand why the NS port can add the tiling support under the name of "stippling". (Of course, I believe that mistake happened unintentionally.) YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp