From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:52:23 +0900 Organization: Faculty of Science, Chiba University Message-ID: References: <47305F6E.2030204@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1194414762 10366 80.91.229.12 (7 Nov 2007 05:52:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 05:52:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ted Zlatanov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 07 06:52:45 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IpdqG-0006Ml-8b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 06:52:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipdq5-0003oc-4S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:52:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipdq0-0003ml-1E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:52:28 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipdpy-0003kg-I8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:52:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipdpy-0003kb-C5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:52:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp ([133.82.132.2]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ipdpx-0002gZ-ON for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:52:26 -0500 Original-Received: from church.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (church [133.82.132.36]) by mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23622C49; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:52:23 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/23.0.50 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: NetBSD 3.0 (DF) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:82708 Archived-At: >>>>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:24:22 -0600, Ted Zlatanov said: YM> Could you precisely describe in what aspects you think it's "much YM> better"? > Well, the short answer is that it actually takes input from the > keyboard. I'd say that's a big improvement over today's Carbon port > builds. OK, I'm not interested in the comparison between a working one and a not working one. > That aside, it has better integration with the MacOS, a nice > Preferences dialog, better font rendering, and other improvements > listed in the ChangeLog. What is "better integration with the MacOS", concretely? In what sense the font rendering in the Carbon port is worse? And I don't think the Preference dialog that can't be controlled from Emacs Lisp is suitable for Emacs. YM> If it were really deprecated, Apple wouldn't have added any new YM> frameworks to Carbon in Leopard. > According to this article: > http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/mac-os-x-10-5.ars/6 > "Yep, it's (finally) the end of the line for Carbon GUI applications > in Mac OS X. Oh, sure, they'll be around for years and years to > come, but the lack of 64-bit support is a long-term death sentence. > The last vestiges of the original Macintosh API are finally being > put to rest. They've done their job and are being given a decent > burial, I think. A slow, almost natural transition. Bugs will be > fixed in the 32-bit Carbon APIs, of course, but no new features will > be added. All new GUI APIs in Leopard and future Mac OS X releases > will be added as Cocoa-only APIs." > This is based on Apple's official announcements, not the author's > opinion. It says about the *GUI* APIs in Carbon, not the whole Carbon APIs. That's why I'm making the Carbon+AppKit port (for Emacs 22) mentioned elsewhere: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg00395.html YM> Did that cause any real problems? YM> I'm asking because they are related not only to the effectively YM> unmaintained Carbon port for Emacs 23 but also to the maintained YM> one for Emacs 22. > No, deprecation warnings are not a problem in themselves, they > indicate the API will go away. That's their purpose, generally. > I assumed that the deprecation warnings I saw while compiling the > Carbon port were Apple's way of telling developers the Carbon APIs > are deprecated. Am I wrong? It wouldn't go away soon for the binary compatibility for existing Carbon applications. And the warnings are not about the whole Carbon, again. Actually, as for the Carbon+AppKit port in 64-bit environment, it compiles without any `deprecated' warnings and runs, though there still remain a few major problems such as suspected ATSUI bug, which I've already reported to Apple, and some unexec problem. YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp