From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Nextstep build uses iso-latin by default. WHY? Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:21:05 +0900 Organization: Faculty of Science, Chiba University Message-ID: References: <56E32A19.7060304@alice.it> <831t7givui.fsf@gnu.org> <20160320151123.GA65516@galloway.idiocy.org> <20160402154513.GA9618@breton.local> <3323FE99-3D82-4A2A-B6B8-1FB7A2A6D66C@iotcl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1460712086 15670 80.91.229.3 (15 Apr 2016 09:21:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 09:21:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 15 11:21:21 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aqzwG-0007bW-BL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:21:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58150 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqzwA-0006Bu-EE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 05:21:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44809) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqzw6-00068x-Cv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 05:21:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqzw3-0006cA-57 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 05:21:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp ([133.82.132.2]:53636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aqzw2-0006c1-Lr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 05:21:07 -0400 Original-Received: from fermat1.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (fermat [192.168.32.10]) by mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E47F08E1; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:21:05 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 133.82.132.2 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:202945 Archived-At: >>>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:26:16 -0400, Stefan Monnier said: >>> So Emacs switched to that "NS" port. More or less around that >>> same time, Yamamoto Mitsuharu started to work on the "old" code >>> and adapt it to the newer version of the old API. And here we >>> are. >> Could you expand what it means by "the newer version of the old >> API" more concretely? > IIUC your port derives from the carbon port. I don't have a good > grasp of the various APIs involved, but my understanding is that the > carbon port was using an API which was being deprecated and you > replaced some parts of it (or maybe all of it, for all I know) to > use a newer API which was the "moral successor" of the old API. > That's what I meant by "newer version of the old API". Though the transition to (the predecessor of) the Mac port, almost all uses of the deprecated parts of Carbon APIs are replaced with Cocoa AppKit (mostly for GUI) and C APIs such as Core Foundation, Core Text, Core Graphics, Image I/O frameworks. Serious OSX/iOS(and tvOS?) developers would never agree on calling these C APIs "the newer version of the old API". Would you call cairo as the newer version of the old Xlib drawing API? It is true that the Mac port uses some functions in the Carbon framework, but only for fine control over low-level stuffs such as Carbon Events and Apple Events, and they are not deprecated. >> Compling the NS port with the recent SDK gives warnings about the >> use of deprecated API, but the Mac port does not. > I didn't mean to imply that the ns port uses a more > recent/uptodate/modern API than your port. Just that your port uses > a more recent API than the carbon port. I was concerned that your previous message might give a wrong impression that the Mac port is using a (newer version, but) old API. Some seem even think it uses Carbon instead of Cocoa for GUI, though you can no longer build Carbon GUI apps with recent SDKs. In reality, besides some eye-candy features such as emoji, 2x images, or Core Animations, it's been adopting several unnoticable ones such as Automatic Reference Counting, Objective-C generics, and non-main thread drawing via Grand Central Dispatch behind the scenes. YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp