From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Wojciech Meyer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the subject of Git, Bazaar, and the future of Emacs development Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 04:11:21 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87ehf1cwc4.fsf@maru.md5i.com> <20130331220136.GA16863@saturn> <83ip44iw3b.fsf@gnu.org> <83mwtef9f5.fsf@gnu.org> <85k3ohlwr9.fsf@member.fsf.org> <515E139E.2070302@dancol.org> <87r4ip93vg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1365304296 23330 80.91.229.3 (7 Apr 2013 03:11:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 03:11:36 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 07 05:11:40 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UOg15-0007sD-WA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 05:11:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42160 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UOg15-0001F1-I4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 23:11:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45941) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UOg11-0001El-21 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 23:11:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UOg0u-0005Re-Uw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 23:11:34 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:55657) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UOg0u-0005RT-O7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 23:11:28 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UOg0t-0007dq-Bg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 05:11:27 +0200 Original-Received: from cpc2-cmbg12-0-0-cust796.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com ([86.9.203.29]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 05:11:27 +0200 Original-Received: from wojciech.meyer by cpc2-cmbg12-0-0-cust796.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 05:11:27 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 49 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc2-cmbg12-0-0-cust796.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:9DXx8rTEaaHCVx0ubrokaM9Xca0= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:158745 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Daniel Colascione writes: > > > As I see it, the only other viable candidate is Mercurial, which, > > while being high-quality, actively-developed free software, lacks > > the user base of git. If Mercurial and git are equivalent of > > technical and ethical grounds, > > Evidently, they're not. Technically, people care about UI, and many > people hate git's. Ethically, git uses copyleft but most of its > developers are pretty clearly firmly in the open source camp (vs. free > software), and some of its most popular associated tools (GitHub) use > non-free code without apology (although it seems that a lot of people > associated with Linux kernel development don't exactly appreciate the > attitude of GitHub in many respects). > > You may not believe either of those outweigh the economic advantages > of git, but you should acknowledge those differences of opinion as > objective facts. In general, the popularity of tools in my opinion is one of the key factors how much momentum the project will gain. There are of course other ways of gaining that momentum, and they usually require a bit less of consideration and work. Looking at improvements to the documentation or wiki pages, it might be the right solution for the projects that can't easily switch to some other technology like Emacs, where it's just does not look feasible. It takes a bit of time, and people understanding and willing to do this. Emacs has a great wiki, and possibly the same could be done for the developers. Surely people tried to document bzr on Emacswiki but maybe documenting the internals would be good. On other hand Emacs itself does have certain other threshold to get the contributions working, it's a primary GNU project (which personally for me was the showstopping problem, and I didn't realise at time it will take that much time to get my papers done in my company, and eventually I didn't contribute, and still don't know why) and it has certain degree of tooling and knowledge required. So, I think contributing to Emacs is what many people dreamed about, but there shouldn't be any unneeded barriers for that. (I don't even count FSF paper work, because I believe it's extremely important to get it done for the sake of being fair with the ideology). I think some people are convinced enough to even use Bzr to get the pleasure of contributing to project like Emacs. :-) Cheers, -- Wojciech http://danmey.org