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From: "Garreau\, Alexandre" <galex-713@galex-713.eu>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Optimising Elisp code [again]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2018 18:30:58 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <vfx93szzzzzz.jxp.xxuns.g6.gal_-_@portable.galex-713.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86o9c5rbm8.fsf@zoho.com> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Sun, 07 Oct 2018 17:59:43 +0200")

On 2018-10-07 at 17:59, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Stefan Monnier wrote:
> So there is no gain as to the number of machine instructions. So where
> is the gain? The `call' instruction specifically, or the implied
> funcall overhead not visible in the disassembly?

A smarter compiler could have optimized the discarded value (since we
don’t use its return value, and the inlined function don’t have any
side-effects (which otherwise would have been preserved)), or could have
simplified the result (I checked and with + 2 then - 2 it seems elisp
compiler don’t do this, while I’m sure gcc can) if something was going
to be done with it.

However, inlining is not an optimization made to gain space or reduce
the number of instruction (even worse: normally it could *increase* the
total amount of instruction and therefore use more memory), it’s here to
gain *speed*.  Not by executing less instructions, but by removing a
jump (the funcall), as in today’s computers, jumps (like function calls,
or conditionals) can increase execution time.  So at the end,
duplicating instructions can lead to faster execution, albeit increased
memory usage.

I kind of forgot why jumps are slow, but afair, either because the cache
being little it’s faster to execute nearby code, either because as
modern cpus try to do as much as possible in the same time (pipeline
instructions optimization, found in today’s superscalar cpu, iirc), they
need to know what will be executed next, and they stop searching what’s
next after a jump…  but that (+ loop unrolling) might be mitigated by
the fact that if you use too much memory at same time, it might not fit
in the smaller and faster cache, and then get slower…  so I guess here
it gets complex and architecture dependant, and becomes the job of
complex and native compilers to guess what is best to do.



  reply	other threads:[~2018-10-07 16:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-05  2:15 Optimising Elisp code Davin Pearson
2018-10-05  2:19 ` Davin Pearson
2018-10-05  9:46   ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 10:58   ` Noam Postavsky
2018-10-05 10:03 ` tomas
2018-10-05 14:28 ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-05 14:42   ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 15:04     ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 17:05       ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]       ` <mailman.1736.1538759161.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-05 17:23         ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 17:46           ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]           ` <mailman.1737.1538762057.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-05 18:50             ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 19:14               ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 19:17                 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 19:26                 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 19:40           ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found]           ` <mailman.1741.1538768445.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-05 21:55             ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-05 18:04       ` James K. Lowden
2018-10-05 19:02         ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-07  2:57     ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-06 10:45   ` Knowing where a function has been used (e.g. for optimizing) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-06 14:40   ` Optimising Elisp code Stefan Monnier
2018-10-06 16:55     ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-06 19:24       ` tomas
2018-10-06 19:55         ` Knowing where a function has been used (bis) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-06 20:27           ` tomas
2018-10-06 21:42             ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-07  8:10               ` tomas
2018-10-07 13:56                 ` Garreau, Alexandre
     [not found]               ` <mailman.1787.1538899813.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-07 12:54                 ` Emanuel Berg
     [not found]           ` <mailman.1775.1538857674.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-07 12:52             ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-07 13:19               ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found]               ` <mailman.1792.1538918415.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-07 15:59                 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-07 16:30                   ` Garreau, Alexandre [this message]
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.1805.1538929865.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-08 14:11                     ` Optimising Elisp code [again] Emanuel Berg
2018-10-08 14:43                       ` tomas
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.1852.1539009893.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-09  0:38                         ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-09  6:26                           ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-09  8:07                             ` Garreau, Alexandre
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.1903.1539072429.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-09 13:28                               ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-09 15:03                                 ` Garreau, Alexandre
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.1911.1539097442.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-09 15:26                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-09 19:35                                     ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-10 16:18                                     ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-10 20:53                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2018-10-10 23:54                                       ` Garreau, Alexandre
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.1975.1539205047.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-11 18:10                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-12 19:52                                           ` Robert Thorpe
2018-10-07 16:10                 ` Knowing where a function has been used (bis) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code] Emanuel Berg
2018-10-07 16:35                   ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-07 19:35                   ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-08 14:18                     ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-08 15:23                       ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-08 20:52                     ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-09  0:41                       ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-09  6:35                         ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-10 16:24                           ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-10 16:32                             ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-11 19:29                               ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-11 20:05                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-12 22:32                                   ` Barry Margolin
2018-10-12 23:03                                     ` Eric Abrahamsen
2018-10-13 20:51                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-14  7:55                                       ` tomas
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.2146.1539503732.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-14 19:10                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-15  8:25                                           ` tomas
     [not found]                                           ` <mailman.2179.1539591977.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-15 19:27                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-16  0:55                                               ` Van L
2018-10-17  0:20                                               ` Garreau, Alexandre
     [not found]                                               ` <mailman.2284.1539735662.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-17  6:49                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-10 20:50                             ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.1806.1538930105.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-08 14:14                     ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-08 15:37                       ` Naming, and Gnus functions length [Was: Re: Knowing where a function has been used (bis) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code]] Garreau, Alexandre
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.1860.1539013068.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-08 15:43                         ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-08 15:52                           ` Naming, and Gnus functions length [ Garreau, Alexandre
     [not found]                           ` <mailman.1863.1539013974.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-08 16:39                             ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-08 20:03                           ` Naming, and Gnus functions length [Was: Re: Knowing where a function has been used (bis) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code]] Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                           ` <mailman.1874.1539029031.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-08 20:44                             ` Why is Elisp slow? (was: Re: Naming, and Gnus functions length [Was: Re: Knowing where a function has been used (bis) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code]]) Emanuel Berg
2018-10-08 23:53                               ` Why is Elisp slow? Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-09 12:27                                 ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.1893.1539042845.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-09  6:23                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-09  8:05                                   ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-09 15:04                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-02  4:49                                   ` Van L
2019-05-02  7:56                                     ` tomas
2019-05-02 11:06                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-05-02 13:18                                         ` tomas
2019-05-02 15:34                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-02 19:13                                             ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-05-02 19:45                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-04 11:55                                                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-05-02 20:00                                               ` tomas
2019-05-04 11:52                                                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-05-02 19:33                                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-02 19:49                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-02 20:12                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-02 20:20                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-02 21:40                                                     ` Ergus
2019-05-02 23:39                                                       ` 조성빈
2019-05-03  0:44                                                         ` Ergus
2019-05-03  1:06                                                           ` 조성빈
2019-05-03 10:36                                                             ` Ergus
2019-05-03 11:52                                                               ` 조성빈
2019-05-03 12:44                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-03 12:58                                                                   ` Ergus
2019-05-03 14:00                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-03 22:57                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-04 13:32                                                                       ` Ergus
2019-05-04 14:03                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-04 22:41                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-04 22:56                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-04 23:19                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-05 15:40                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-06  6:53                                                                                 ` tomas
2019-05-06  8:25                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-05  0:12                                                                               ` 조성빈
2019-05-05  3:15                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-05  0:43                                                                           ` Ergus
2019-05-05  3:07                                                                             ` 조성빈
2019-05-05 15:50                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-06  7:33                                                                                 ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-05-06  9:03                                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-06 10:51                                                                                     ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-05-06 12:58                                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-06 13:08                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-06 16:17                                                                                     ` Ergus
2019-05-06 17:25                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-06 17:45                                                                                         ` 조성빈
2019-05-06 18:08                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-06 18:18                                                                                             ` 조성빈
2019-05-06 18:47                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-06 20:23                                                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-06 20:41                                                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-06 21:45                                                                                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-05-06 22:03                                                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-06 23:07                                                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-07 10:49                                                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-07 11:51                                                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-07 12:38                                                                                                     ` Ergus
2019-05-07 12:56                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-07 13:01                                                                                                       ` 조성빈
2019-05-07 13:04                                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-07 13:14                                                                                                           ` Ergus
2019-05-07 13:43                                                                                                             ` 조성빈
2019-05-07 14:22                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-07 14:41                                                                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-09  9:49                                                                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-10  3:20                                                                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-10  4:26                                                                                                                     ` Ergus
2019-05-10  4:35                                                                                                                       ` 조성빈
2019-05-10  8:27                                                                                                                       ` tomas
2019-05-07 13:16                                                                                                           ` 조성빈
2019-05-07 13:40                                                                                                             ` Ergus
2019-05-06 20:51                                                                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-07  2:35                                                                                           ` 조성빈
2019-05-10  5:14                                                                                     ` Van L
2019-05-06 13:18                                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-06 13:33                                                                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-06 14:04                                                                                     ` 조성빈
2019-05-10  7:20                                                                                       ` Van L
2019-05-10 14:38                                                                                         ` Lisp, C, and C++ (was: Re: Why is Elisp slow?) Emanuel Berg
2019-05-10 14:49                                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-06 23:39                                                                                     ` Why is Elisp slow? Emanuel Berg
2019-05-05  5:25                                                                             ` Paul W. Rankin
2019-05-05 13:19                                                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-05 13:46                                                                               ` Ergus
2019-05-06  7:01                                                                                 ` tomas
2019-05-05 12:51                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-10  3:15                                                                           ` Van L
2019-05-04 14:10                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-03 12:51                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-03 13:16                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-03 13:32                                                                     ` Ergus
2019-05-03 14:04                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-04  0:32                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-04 11:29                                                                     ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-05-03  1:45                                                           ` Paul W. Rankin
2019-05-03  7:00                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-03  9:58                                                             ` Ergus
2019-05-03 12:41                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-03 22:18                                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-04 13:27                                                                 ` Ergus
2019-05-04 13:38                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-04  0:33                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-03  7:08                                                           ` tomas
2019-05-10 13:14                                                           ` Van L
2019-05-10 13:22                                                             ` Michael Heerdegen
2019-05-10 14:44                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-11  0:38                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-11  1:55                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-11  2:16                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-11  7:32                                                                 ` Is Elisp really that slow? (was: Why is Elisp slow?) tomas
2019-05-11  7:42                                                                   ` 조성빈
2019-05-11  7:57                                                                     ` tomas
2019-05-11 14:30                                                                       ` 조성빈
2019-05-11 17:01                                                                         ` tomas
2019-05-11 23:09                                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12  7:54                                                                         ` tomas
2019-05-12  8:09                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12  9:46                                                                           ` 조성빈
2019-05-12 14:21                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 14:45                                                                               ` Is Elisp really that slow? Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 15:28                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 15:46                                                                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 17:20                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 18:37                                                                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 18:53                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13  1:44                                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12 21:18                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-12 22:22                                                                                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-14 13:39                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-14 15:09                                                                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-13  0:57                                                                                           ` Samuel Wales
2019-05-13 12:37                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13 14:23                                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 14:33                                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14  8:24                                                                                                 ` tomas
2019-05-14 13:21                                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 14:44                                                                                                     ` tomas
2019-05-15 11:25                                                                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 12:05                                                                                                         ` tomas
2019-05-15 23:02                                                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-16  6:48                                                                                                             ` tomas
2019-05-16  9:37                                                                                                               ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-16 11:02                                                                                                                 ` tomas
2019-05-23 14:23                                                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-24  1:33                                                                                                                     ` Van L
2019-05-16 13:31                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-23 14:28                                                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-23 14:54                                                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2019-05-23 14:55                                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06  5:18                                                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-16 14:45                                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-25  4:53                                                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-13  1:52                                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13  1:35                                                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12 21:01                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13  1:27                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 14:38                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 15:00                                                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 15:25                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-14 11:54                                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 16:21                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-14 17:05                                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 18:30                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 11:27                                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 14:51                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 23:19                                                                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-17  6:41                                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 15:02                                                                                       ` John Yates
2019-05-13 15:14                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 22:40                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-14  6:27                                                                                       ` Paul W. Rankin
2019-05-14 13:10                                                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 15:42                                                                                     ` Van L
2019-05-17 15:17                                                                                 ` Ken Goldman
2019-06-04  1:36                                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-24  4:28                                                                         ` Is Elisp really that slow? (was: Why is Elisp slow?) Xavier Maillard
2019-06-07 19:08                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-08  0:26                                                                   ` Samuel Wales
2019-06-08  0:30                                                                     ` Samuel Wales
2019-06-08  8:52                                                                     ` tomas
2019-06-08 21:00                                                                       ` Samuel Wales
2019-06-08 21:14                                                                         ` tomas
2019-06-08 21:44                                                                           ` Is Elisp really that slow? Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-08 23:29                                                                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-11  4:10                                                                             ` Xavier Maillard
2019-06-09  6:46                                                                         ` Is Elisp really that slow? (was: Why is Elisp slow?) Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-11 20:23                                                                           ` Samuel Wales
2019-06-08 23:26                                                                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-13  6:10                                                               ` Why is Elisp slow? Van L
2019-05-03  6:55                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-03  2:39                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-03  6:51                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-02 19:10                                           ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-05-03 23:34                                         ` Samuel Wales
2019-05-04  6:19                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]         ` <mailman.1772.1538855722.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-07 12:45           ` Knowing where a function has been used (bis) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code] Emanuel Berg
     [not found]   ` <mailman.1752.1538822765.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-07 12:41     ` Knowing where a function has been used (e.g. for optimizing) " Emanuel Berg
2018-10-07 13:46       ` Getting functions usage examples [Was: Re: Knowing where a function has been used (e.g. for optimizing) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code]] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-08  0:07         ` Van L
2018-10-08 15:40           ` Getting functions usage examples [ Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-09  9:33             ` Van L
     [not found]       ` <mailman.1798.1538920786.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-07 15:38         ` Getting functions usage examples [Was: Re: Knowing where a function has been used (e.g. for optimizing) [Was: Re: Optimising Elisp code]] Emanuel Berg
     [not found] <mailman.2089.1539373965.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-13 18:00 ` Optimising Elisp code [again] Emanuel Berg

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