From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:54:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20080104164454.0A4BD830697@snark.thyrsus.com> <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> <87r6gxoyjv.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199501683 389 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2008 02:54:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 02:54:43 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 05 03:55:04 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JAzBe-0002oy-Cp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:55:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JAzBH-0003Bd-RA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:54:39 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JAzBD-00038O-UU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:54:35 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JAzBC-00035d-O5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:54:35 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JAzBC-00035L-K0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:54:34 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JAzBC-0008JJ-98 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:54:34 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JAzB9-0002Y2-AU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 02:54:31 +0000 Original-Received: from 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.35.77.169]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 02:54:31 +0000 Original-Received: from ofv by 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 02:54:31 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Oy7cWnrT0Y0A6ICWBeb7Q1NZi0U= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86101 Archived-At: Miles Bader writes: > Sure, but I think the point is: we pick what works best for us and our > users, not what satisfies buzzword-completeness. We surely should > reject change, if it's for the worse! [Maybe that sounds obvious, but > contemporary corporate culture often does not follow that rule...] > > I've used low-quality web bug-trackers (e.g. the one on savannah), and > IMHO, they're no improvement over the status quo -- they have some > advantages, but the disadvantages are also severe. You are right on some aspect: so far there was too much insistence on how old-fashioned Emacs' development is and how cool modern practices are. Of course, this approach is wrong. We, the advocates of change, should provide more evidence supporting our proposals. It was a good thing seeing how RMS changed his mind as soon as someone demonstrated how a DVCS would enhance his actual way of working. For the bug tracker, I'm afraid it will not so easy. Most likely, current Emacs developers should trade some diary personal incovenience for some long-term project development efficiency. On the other hand, it is difficult to appreciate the convenience of having an audit of a bug or feature until you are using the system for some months. Finally, please remember that nobody is suggesting "one true way" to project management. IMHO ESR's proposal is too radical. I'm convinced that there is no need to completely depart from current practices and we can settle a point where Emacs development is improved and becomes more attractive for prospecting developers without turning it boring for the current ones. It's just a matter of constructive dialogue. -- Oscar