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From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:54:23 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ve690yow.fsf@telefonica.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 87r6gxoyjv.fsf@catnip.gol.com

Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

> Sure, but I think the point is:  we pick what works best for us and our
> users, not what satisfies buzzword-completeness.  We surely should
> reject change, if it's for the worse!  [Maybe that sounds obvious, but
> contemporary corporate culture often does not follow that rule...]
>
> I've used low-quality web bug-trackers (e.g. the one on savannah), and
> IMHO, they're no improvement over the status quo -- they have some
> advantages, but the disadvantages are also severe.

You are right on some aspect: so far there was too much insistence on
how old-fashioned Emacs' development is and how cool modern practices
are. Of course, this approach is wrong. We, the advocates of change,
should provide more evidence supporting our proposals. It was a good
thing seeing how RMS changed his mind as soon as someone demonstrated
how a DVCS would enhance his actual way of working.

For the bug tracker, I'm afraid it will not so easy. Most likely,
current Emacs developers should trade some diary personal incovenience
for some long-term project development efficiency. On the other hand, it
is difficult to appreciate the convenience of having an audit of a bug
or feature until you are using the system for some months.

Finally, please remember that nobody is suggesting "one true way" to
project management. IMHO ESR's proposal is too radical. I'm convinced
that there is no need to completely depart from current practices and we
can settle a point where Emacs development is improved and becomes more
attractive for prospecting developers without turning it boring for the
current ones.

It's just a matter of constructive dialogue.

-- 
Oscar

  reply	other threads:[~2008-01-05  2:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 117+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-01-04 16:44 Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-04 17:33 ` Andreas Röhler
2008-01-04 18:29   ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-04 18:38   ` Gianluca Della Vedova
2008-01-05 14:31     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05 18:50       ` Gianluca Della Vedova
2008-01-05 19:51         ` Drew Adams
2008-01-05 19:58           ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05 20:13           ` Sven Joachim
2008-01-05 20:28             ` Drew Adams
2008-01-06 10:47         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05 22:39       ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-06 18:09         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06 19:57           ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-06 22:29             ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-07 11:31               ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-04 19:20 ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-04 19:40   ` Drew Adams
2008-01-04 23:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-05  0:44   ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05  1:23     ` Miles Bader
2008-01-05  2:54       ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2008-01-05 15:38         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 16:33           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-05 19:05           ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05 19:12             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-01-05 20:00             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 20:38               ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05 21:55                 ` Reiner Steib
2008-01-05 22:05                 ` David Kastrup
2008-01-05 22:48                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05 23:25                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 22:00             ` Bastien
2008-01-05 22:21               ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05 23:32                 ` Bastien
2008-01-06  0:52                   ` Bastien
2008-01-07 17:15                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-08  1:06                       ` Bastien
2008-01-06 10:46             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-08 23:49             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-01-09  1:13               ` Leo
2008-01-09  1:48                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-01-09  1:28               ` Andrea Russo
2008-01-09  1:49                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-01-05 12:23     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-05 17:40       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-01-06  1:10         ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-06 18:09           ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06 18:18             ` David Kastrup
2008-01-06 21:27               ` Jan Djärv
2008-01-06 21:35                 ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07  6:56                   ` Jan Djärv
2008-01-07  8:23                     ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07 14:28             ` Bill Wohler
2008-01-10  4:11             ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-05 22:23       ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-01-05 22:23       ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-01-05 23:05       ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05 23:20         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-01-06 17:13           ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-06 20:15             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-01-06 20:37               ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-06 22:17               ` Bastien
2008-01-05  5:20   ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 11:17     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-05 14:57       ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 15:51         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-01-05 16:07           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 19:58         ` Chris Ball
2008-01-05 20:50           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-01-05 21:26           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 23:46             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-06 16:38           ` email-based development (was:: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker) John S. Yates, Jr.
2008-01-05  8:51   ` Let a QA department into the works Andreas Röhler
2008-01-05 14:53     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-06  8:09     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06 11:15       ` David Kastrup
2008-01-06 19:52         ` Andreas Röhler
2008-01-05 21:39   ` Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Bastien
2008-01-05 14:30 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05 15:25   ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-06 10:47     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 18:24   ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 20:19     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 21:48       ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 23:21         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 23:39           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-06  1:03             ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-06  2:08               ` Miles Bader
2008-01-06  4:08                 ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-06 10:26                   ` Andreas Schwab
2008-01-06 11:22                     ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-06 13:19                       ` Andreas Schwab
2008-01-06 11:13                   ` David Kastrup
2008-01-06 15:59                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-07 11:30                       ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-07 13:29                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-08 19:06                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-09 15:35                     ` Bill Wohler
2008-01-06  4:14                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-06  5:30                   ` Miles Bader
2008-01-07 14:40                     ` Yavor Doganov
2008-01-10  4:23                       ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-10  6:46                         ` Mark Linimon
2008-01-11  7:00                       ` Bill Wohler
2008-01-11 15:54                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-11 20:42                           ` Ralf Angeli
2008-01-11 21:25                           ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-11 22:41                             ` David Kastrup
2008-01-11 23:14                           ` Evans Winner
2008-01-13  8:35                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06 18:09         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06 20:02           ` Martin Geisler
2008-01-07 11:31             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06 20:09           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-06 21:08           ` Eric S. Raymond

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