22.2.50; 23.0.60; customize-rogue is too long (emacs -Q)

22.2.50; 23.0.60; customize-rogue is too long (emacs -Q)

[Reiner Steib]

Hi,

to reproduce: Start Emacs as "emacs -Q -f customize-rogue".

,----[ <f1> f customize-rogue RET ]
| customize-rogue is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `cus-edit.el'.
| (customize-rogue)
| 
| Customize all user variables modified outside customize.
`----

Expected behavior (because of -Q): empty list

Current behavior: Many "CHANGED outside Customize;"

,----[ Emacs 22.2.50 ]
| Baud Rate: [Hide Value] 19200
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| The output baud rate of the terminal. [More]
| Groups: [Display]
| 
| Completion Ignored Extensions: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| Completion ignores file names ending in any string in this list. [More]
| 
| Custom Raised Buttons: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  off (nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| If non-nil, indicate active buttons in a `raised-button' style. [More]
| Groups: [Custom Buffer]
| 
| Debug Ignored Errors: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| List of errors for which the debugger should not be called. [More]
| 
| Default Frame Alist: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| Alist of default values for frame creation. [More]
| 
| Eol Mnemonic Dos: [Hide Value] (DOS)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| String displayed in mode line for DOS-like (CRLF) end-of-line format.
| Groups: [Mule]
| 
| Eol Mnemonic Mac: [Hide Value] (Mac)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| String displayed in mode line for MAC-like (CR) end-of-line format.
| Groups: [Mule]
| 
| File Coding System Alist: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| Alist to decide a coding system to use for a file I/O operation. [More]
| 
| Find File Hook: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| List of functions to be called after a buffer is loaded from a file. [More]
| 
| Help Event List: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| List of input events to recognize as meaning Help. [More]
| 
| Inhibit Startup Screen: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  on (non-nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| Non-nil inhibits the startup screen. [More]
| Groups: [Initialization]
| 
| Menu Bar Mode: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  on (non-nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| Non-nil if Menu-Bar mode is enabled. [More]
| Groups: [Frames]
| 
| Minibuffer Prompt Properties: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| Text properties that are added to minibuffer prompts. [More]
| 
| Mouse Wheel Mode: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  on (non-nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| Non-nil if Mouse-Wheel mode is enabled. [More]
| Groups: [Mouse]
| 
| Pop Up Frame Function: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| Function to call to handle automatic new frame creation. [More]
| 
| Same Window Buffer Names: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| List of buffer names that should appear in the selected window. [More]
| 
| Same Window Regexps: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| List of regexps saying which buffers should appear in the selected window. [More]
| 
| Site Run File: [Hide Value] [Value Menu] none
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| File containing site-wide run-time initializations. [More]
| Groups: [Initialization]
| 
| Special Display Function: [Hide Value] special-display-popup-frame
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
| 
| Function to call to make a new frame for a special buffer. [More]
| Groups: [Frames]
| 
| Text Mode Hook: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
| 
| Normal hook run when entering Text mode and many related modes.
`----

,----[ Emacs 23.0.60 / 2008-05-24 ]
| Baud Rate: [Hide Value] 19200
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    The output baud rate of the terminal. [More]
| Groups: [Display]
| 
| Completion Ignored Extensions: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    Completion ignores file names ending in any string in this list. [More]
| 
| Custom Raised Buttons: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  off (nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    If non-nil, indicate active buttons in a `raised-button' style. [More]
| Groups: [Custom Buffer]
| 
| Debug Ignored Errors: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    List of errors for which the debugger should not be called. [More]
| 
| Default Frame Alist: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    Alist of default values for frame creation. [More]
| 
| Eol Mnemonic Dos: [Hide Value] (DOS)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    String displayed in mode line for DOS-like (CRLF) end-of-line format.
| Groups: [Mule]
| 
| Eol Mnemonic Mac: [Hide Value] (Mac)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    String displayed in mode line for MAC-like (CR) end-of-line format.
| Groups: [Mule]
| 
| Exec Path: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    List of directories to search programs to run in subprocesses. [More]
| 
| File Coding System Alist: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    Alist to decide a coding system to use for a file I/O operation. [More]
| 
| Find File Hook: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    List of functions to be called after a buffer is loaded from a file. [More]
| 
| Help Event List: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    List of input events to recognize as meaning Help. [More]
| 
| Inhibit Startup Screen: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  on (non-nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    Non-nil inhibits the startup screen. [More]
| Groups: [Initialization]
| 
| Initial Frame Alist: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    Alist of frame parameters for creating the initial X window frame. [More]
| 
| Keyboard Coding System: [Hide Value] utf-8-unix
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    Specify coding system for keyboard input. [More]
| Groups: [Keyboard] [Mule]
| See also [(emacs)Unibyte Mode] and [(emacs)Terminal Coding].
| 
| Menu Bar Mode: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  on (non-nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    Non-nil if Menu-Bar mode is enabled. [More]
| Groups: [Frames]
| 
| Minibuffer Prompt Properties: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    Text properties that are added to minibuffer prompts. [More]
| 
| Mouse Wheel Mode: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  on (non-nil)
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    Non-nil if Mouse-Wheel mode is enabled. [More]
| Groups: [Mouse]
| 
| Pop Up Frame Function: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    Function to call to handle automatic new frame creation. [More]
| 
| Same Window Buffer Names: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    List of buffer names that should appear in the selected window. [More]
| 
| Same Window Regexps: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    List of regexps saying which buffers should appear in the selected window. [More]
| 
| Site Run File: [Hide Value] [Value Menu] none
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    File containing site-wide run-time initializations. [More]
| Groups: [Initialization]
| 
| Special Display Function: [Hide Value] special-display-popup-frame
|    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
|    Function to call to make a new frame for a special buffer. [More]
| Groups: [Frames]
| 
| Text Mode Hook: [Show Value]
|    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
|    Normal hook run when entering Text mode and many related modes.
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: 22.2.50; 23.0.60; customize-rogue is too long (emacs -Q)

[Stefan Monnier]

> | Completion Ignored Extensions: [Show Value]

I suspect this one doesn't change after the dump, in which case we
could get rid of it by resetting the rogueness of any variable just
before loading the .emacs (presumably, even if they're changed "outside
of customize", if we save a value into the user's .emacs it will
override this rogue-setting).

> | Debug Ignored Errors: [Show Value]

This one should be rethought.  I suggest we introduce a new error (call
it `user-error') which we add to debug-ignored-errors, and then packages
should signal a `user-error' rather than signal an `error' and add the
error to debug-ignored-errors.

It will solve this rogueness and will simplify the code as well.

Could someone look into all the other ones to try and figure out what's
the best course of action?


        Stefan

Re: 22.2.50; 23.0.60; customize-rogue is too long (emacs -Q)

[martin rudalics]

 > | Default Frame Alist: [Show Value]
 > |    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
 > |
 > | Alist of default values for frame creation. [More]
 > |
 > | Initial Frame Alist: [Show Value]
 > |    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
 > |    Alist of frame parameters for creating the initial X window frame. [More]
 > |
 > | Menu Bar Mode: [Hide Value] [Toggle]  on (non-nil)
 > |    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
 > |
 > | Non-nil if Menu-Bar mode is enabled. [More]
 > | Groups: [Frames]
 > |
 > | Pop Up Frame Function: [Show Value]
 > |    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
 > |
 > | Function to call to handle automatic new frame creation. [More]

You might want to consult the thread

"CHANGED outside Customize" in frames customization group

on emacs-devel starting 2007-12-29.


 > | Same Window Buffer Names: [Show Value]
 > |    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
 > |
 > | List of buffer names that should appear in the selected window. [More]
 > |
 > | Same Window Regexps: [Show Value]
 > |    State: HIDDEN, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show.
 > |
 > | List of regexps saying which buffers should appear in the selected window. [More]
 > |

I would simply set these in window.el as soon as I moved them there.
What was the particular idea of those weird autoload cookies in the
first place?


 > | Special Display Function: [Hide Value] special-display-popup-frame
 > |    [State]: CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here may be unreliable.
 > |
 > | Function to call to make a new frame for a special buffer. [More]
 > | Groups: [Frames]

Will be fixed when moving `display-buffer' to window.el.