From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2473: usability issues on emacs's describe-mode Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:04:01 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3FD7E241-BEE3-43D6-B7F6-79A3758562FB@xahlee.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235733878 14532 80.91.229.12 (27 Feb 2009 11:24:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:24:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xah@xahlee.org To: rms@gnu.org, 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 27 12:25:53 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ld0qm-0003RN-Ud for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:25:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35116 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld0pR-00013Q-So for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:24:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld0of-0000AD-LR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:23:41 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld0oe-00008d-IP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:23:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49534 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ld0oe-00008Q-Dn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:23:40 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:56342) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ld0od-00068z-R6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:23:40 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1RBNc3k024220; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:23:38 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n1RBA4oe020547; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:10:04 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:10:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 2473 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2473-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B2473.123573264918367 (code B ref 2473); Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:10:04 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2473) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Feb 2009 11:04:09 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from mtaout2.012.net.il (mtaout2.012.net.il [84.95.2.4]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1RB45K2018346 for <2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:04:06 -0800 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.i_mtaout2.012.net.il by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) id <0KFQ00E001ALAS00@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:04:35 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.167.119]) by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0KFQ00GM41FMUHM0@i_mtaout2.012.net.il>; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:04:35 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:23:40 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:25767 Archived-At: > From: Richard M Stallman > Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 05:10:49 -0500 > Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > We list the minor mode info here as well as the major mode info, > because otherwise we would need a separate command to give info about > them, and that would be burdensome in another way. The way we present > it is the best possible compromise between the various goals. It > gives the minor mode info in brief form at the front, but puts most of > it at the end, out of the way. > > I do see two ways to improve this: I see a 3rd way: make the buffer present an expandable list of modes, starting with just 2 items: the current major modes and "minor modes", e.g. similar to what we do in Speedbar, or maybe in Outline Mode (under "Hide Sublevels"). In ASCII art: + Major Mode: RMAIL Mode + Minor Modes Clicking on a plus near Major Mode would then expand to the text we currently show for that major mode, for example: - Major Mode: RMAIL mode Rmail Mode is used by M-x rmail for editing Rmail files. All normal editing commands are turned off. Instead, these commands are available: . Move point to front of this message. / Move point to bottom of this message. SPC Scroll to next screen of this message. DEL Scroll to previous screen of this message. n Move to Next non-deleted message. p Move to Previous non-deleted message. + Minor Modes Clicking on "Minor Modes" would show only the list of modes with short descriptions: - Minor Modes: + Auto-Compression -- automatic file compression and uncompression. + Blink-Cursor -- blink cursor in current window. + Desktop-Save -- save Emacs session on exit. + Display-Time -- display time, load average, and mail flag in modeline. + File-Name-Shadow -- shadow ignored part of file name in minibuffer. etc., you get the picture. (We could also have a tooltip on each line showing more info for that mode.) Clicking on any of the plus signs near a minor mode would display the full documentation for that minor mode, the one we show today unconditionally. This way, the user will be able to expand only the modes she is interested in. Using the short description, the user will be able to find out what is/are the modes she is interested in, if she doesn't know that in advance. For more functionality, we could add buttons and/or help-echo links to go to the manual where the mode is fully described. WDYT?