* [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
@ 2005-06-14 0:00 Miles Bader
2005-06-14 12:18 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-14 13:10 ` Robert J. Chassell
0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2005-06-14 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
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From: "Thomas Widmann" <thomas.widmann@harpercollins.co.uk>
Subject: "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
Date: 13 Jun 2005 09:52:42 -0700
Message-ID: <1118681561.957194.160950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Hi there,
it might interest people in this group that "emacs" is defined in the
new edition of the Collins English Dictionary (7th edition). The
dictionary gives the plural as "emacsen", and it is defined as follows:
"a powerful computer program used for creating and editing text,
functioning primarily through keyboard commands".
/Thomas
--
Thomas Widmann thomas.widmann@harpercollins.co.uk
Lead Developer +44 (141) 306 3295
Collins Dictionaries Glasgow, UK
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Emacs-devel mailing list
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 0:00 [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary Miles Bader
@ 2005-06-14 12:18 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-14 12:56 ` Nic Ferrier
` (2 more replies)
2005-06-14 13:10 ` Robert J. Chassell
1 sibling, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Mathias Dahl @ 2005-06-14 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:
> it might interest people in this group that "emacs" is defined in
> the new edition of the Collins English Dictionary (7th edition).
> The dictionary gives the plural as "emacsen", and it is defined as
> follows: "a powerful computer program used for creating and editing
> text, functioning primarily through keyboard commands".
[off-topic]
I am a native Swedish-speaker and wonder about these plurals ending in
-en. I have seen "emacsen" and "boxen", and to me they look "ugly"
(not offence intended), cannot explain why. Does not sound right at
all to me. Is there any "old" words that use this too or is this some
modern "thing"?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 12:18 ` Mathias Dahl
@ 2005-06-14 12:56 ` Nic Ferrier
2005-06-14 13:40 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-14 13:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2005-06-14 13:35 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nic Ferrier @ 2005-06-14 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Mathias Dahl <brakjoller@gmail.com> writes:
> Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> it might interest people in this group that "emacs" is defined in
>> the new edition of the Collins English Dictionary (7th edition).
>> The dictionary gives the plural as "emacsen", and it is defined as
>> follows: "a powerful computer program used for creating and editing
>> text, functioning primarily through keyboard commands".
>
> [off-topic]
>
> I am a native Swedish-speaker and wonder about these plurals ending in
> -en. I have seen "emacsen" and "boxen", and to me they look "ugly"
> (not offence intended), cannot explain why. Does not sound right at
> all to me. Is there any "old" words that use this too or is this some
> modern "thing"?
Oxen, Children, Bretheren.
See:
http://www.snvt.hum.uva.nl/Taalunieversum/Web/SIBData/resources/grammar/010.htm
Nic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 12:18 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-14 12:56 ` Nic Ferrier
@ 2005-06-14 13:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2005-06-14 13:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
2005-06-14 13:35 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2005-06-14 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
> Is there any "old" words that use this too or is this some
> modern "thing"?
Oxen: (plural of ox) are cattle trained as draft animals. Often they
are adult, castrated males. [etc.]
--
/L/e/k/t/u
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 0:00 [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary Miles Bader
2005-06-14 12:18 ` Mathias Dahl
@ 2005-06-14 13:10 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-14 15:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-06-15 18:34 ` Kevin Rodgers
1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Robert J. Chassell @ 2005-06-14 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Thomas Widmann wrote,
... it might interest people in this group that "emacs" is defined
in the new edition of the Collins English Dictionary (7th edition).
The dictionary gives the plural as "emacsen", and it is defined as
follows: "a powerful computer program used for creating and
editing text, functioning primarily through keyboard commands".
Unfortunately, the definition is wrong in two ways:
* first, the definition follows RMS in saying that moving files and
such is a form of editing.
Such actions are a form of editing but most people do not speak
that way. They speak of renaming a file as different from
changing a word within a file. If the Collins English Dictionary
uses his definition, it needs to explain RMS' idiosyncratic
language in the definition itself.
* second, Emacs is much more than an editor (unless you use RMS'
definition of editing).
It is simpler and shorter to say that Emacs is an integrating
environment, like a command line interface or a graphic user
interface. Emacs is a virtual lisp machine.
Like a shell which has VI, Emacs has editing. In the same way, the
various graphic user interfaces have editors and word processors, too.
And you can move or rename files in all the interfaces.
The Emacspeak auditory desktop, although derived from the Emacs
virtual lisp machine, is a different, fourth, form of integrated user
environment.
See
http://www.rattlesnake.com/notions/four-interfaces.html
A better definition for Emacs is:
"... a powerful computer program that is one of the four major
integrated user environments. Like a command line interface or a
graphic user interface, Emacs provides editing and other features.
Although it provides various mouse commands, people often control
it through keyboard commands. The Emacspeak auditory desktop is
derived from this program, but is a different, fourth integrated
user environment."
or shorter:
"Emacs is an integrated user environment, like a command line
interface or a graphic user interface. It provides editing and
other features. Although it provides various mouse commands,
people often control Emacs through keyboard commands."
People attempting humour use "emacsen" as the plural.
--
Robert J. Chassell
bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 13:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
@ 2005-06-14 13:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2005-06-14 13:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Other words do still have the -en, though it is less identifiable as
the plural form of a singular noun: children, brethren.
There's a simplified explanation of the historical variation of
English plural forms in:
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990930
--
/L/e/k/t/u
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 12:18 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-14 12:56 ` Nic Ferrier
2005-06-14 13:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
@ 2005-06-14 13:35 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Alfred M. Szmidt @ 2005-06-14 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Is there any "old" words that use this too or is this some modern
"thing"?
ox -> oxen, and since VAX machines are as strong as oxen, we have the
plural VAXen.
And from there it (I assume) got applied to other things that do alot
of work, like emacs (emacsen), and a couple of machines (boxen).
That is atleast how I gather it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 12:56 ` Nic Ferrier
@ 2005-06-14 13:40 ` Mathias Dahl
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Mathias Dahl @ 2005-06-14 13:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
Nic Ferrier <nferrier@tapsellferrier.co.uk> writes:
>> I am a native Swedish-speaker and wonder about these plurals ending in
>> -en. I have seen "emacsen" and "boxen", and to me they look "ugly"
>> (not offence intended), cannot explain why. Does not sound right at
>> all to me. Is there any "old" words that use this too or is this some
>> modern "thing"?
>
> Oxen, Children, Bretheren.
Of course, thanks!
Actually, I did not know about oxen.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 13:10 ` Robert J. Chassell
@ 2005-06-14 15:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-06-14 19:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-14 19:52 ` Nic Ferrier
2005-06-15 18:34 ` Kevin Rodgers
1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Gian Uberto Lauri @ 2005-06-14 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: thomas.widmann, emacs-devel
>>>>> "RJC" == Robert J Chassell <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
RJC> Like a shell which has VI, Emacs has editing. In the same way,
RJC> the various graphic user interfaces have editors and word
RJC> processors, too. And you can move or rename files in all the
RJC> interfaces.
I completly disagree.
Emacs is an editor, the finest one. Oh, by the way, it's programmable
in the same language used to build it. This leaves the door open to
the most strange uses of a text editor, a thing that pleases hackers.
Integrated envirnonment usually lack the elegance and simple
extensibility of Emacs while all the extensions are both a sort of
editing and a very useful complement to editing.
--
/\ ___
/___/\__|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_____________________
//--\ | | \| | Integralista GNUslamico
\/ e coltivatore diretto di software
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 15:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
@ 2005-06-14 19:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-14 22:49 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-06-15 0:00 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-06-14 19:52 ` Nic Ferrier
1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Robert J. Chassell @ 2005-06-14 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: thomas.widmann, emacs-devel
Emacs is an editor ...
At some point, an `editor' ceases to be a program that encompasses all
the ways that people can twiddle bits and becomes something else.
People like RMS do not see any difference between changing a file name
and changing a word within that file, but others do. When you speak
the word `editor' and wish to communicate, you must either tell your
listener that you are using an uncommon definition, or use a different
term. I am not saying that RMS is incorrect in this thought, but that
when using the word `editor', he and others fail to communicate
successfully unless they explain what they mean.
The definition I saw did _not_ say "using an uncommon definition of
the word, one that to most people means `integrated user environment',
Emacs is an editor."
As written, the definition misleads people into thinking that Emacs
falls into the same category as VI or Notepad.
Integrated envirnonment usually lack the elegance and simple
extensibility of Emacs ...
Yes, indeed. That does not means that Emacs is not an integrated
envirnonment; it means that others are not as elegant and simple. On
this, we agree.
Fewer words are needed to define Emacs as an integrated user
environment with editing capabilities than to explain that the word
`editor' is not as defined elsewhere in the dictionary, but is a
special usage for the entry.
--
Robert J. Chassell
bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 15:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-06-14 19:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
@ 2005-06-14 19:52 ` Nic Ferrier
1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nic Ferrier @ 2005-06-14 19:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: bob, thomas.widmann, emacs-devel
GianUberto.Lauri@eng.it (Gian Uberto Lauri) writes:
>>>>>> "RJC" == Robert J Chassell <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
>
> RJC> Like a shell which has VI, Emacs has editing. In the same way,
> RJC> the various graphic user interfaces have editors and word
> RJC> processors, too. And you can move or rename files in all the
> RJC> interfaces.
>
> I completly disagree.
>
> Emacs is an editor, the finest one. Oh, by the way, it's programmable
> in the same language used to build it. This leaves the door open to
> the most strange uses of a text editor, a thing that pleases hackers.
>
> Integrated envirnonment usually lack the elegance and simple
> extensibility of Emacs while all the extensions are both a sort of
> editing and a very useful complement to editing.
At the risk of sounding pious... we really are getting into religous
territory here when we're supposed to all be doing what we can to
make a release happen.
I know I'm as guilty as everyone else... but I've just noticed it.
Nic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 19:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
@ 2005-06-14 22:49 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-06-15 0:00 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Gian Uberto Lauri @ 2005-06-14 22:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: thomas.widmann, saint, emacs-devel
>>>>> "RJC" == Robert J Chassell <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
RJC> Emacs is an editor ... At some point, an `editor' ceases to
Nope. Emacs can do it, but doesn't do it.
I think that even Microsoft Word could be programmed to do such things
but I' pretty sure that nobody would call it anithing else than word
mangle\b\b\b\b\b\bprocessor.
RJC> People like RMS do not see any difference between changing a file
RJC> name and changing a word within that file, but others do.
They see the difference IMHO. They understand that they are just
specializations of altering information.
RJC> When
RJC> you speak the word `editor' and wish to communicate, you must
RJC> either tell your listener that you are using an uncommon
RJC> definition,
I tell them I use an uncommon Editor, that's true.
RJC> As written, the definition misleads people into thinking that
RJC> Emacs falls into the same category as VI or Notepad.
<kidding>
Putting vi side by side with notepad is unfair to vi. While is
notorious that vi is penance, notepad is almost useless. Therefore vi
is much more useful.
</kidding>
vi is a powerful editor I'm not comfortable with unless for the
shortest and quickest tasks. Anyway, using vi and (a lot of) shell
scripts you can implement an Emacs.
RJC> Yes, indeed. That does not means that Emacs is not an integrated
RJC> envirnonment;
Emacs can turn into a sort of integrated environment by loading the
appropriate modules (auctex, jdee), but after all is an editor that
does much more than other editors do and often by delegating the work
to external programs.
It's a sort of integrating editor more than an integrated environment
(or collection of integrated environments). Something that could be as
extensible as Emacs could be Eclipse. That's an integrated environment
that does it all.
But Emacs does editing. If you want it does tetris, but it's goal is
to edit and to do it in the most productive way, often doing it for
you.
The editing capabilities of Emacs are so powerful that you can put
them behind its ability to integrate other software work. That's why I
disagree with you.
--
/\ ___
/___/\__|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_____________________
//--\ | | \| | Integralista GNUslamico
\/ e coltivatore diretto di software
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 19:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-14 22:49 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
@ 2005-06-15 0:00 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-06-15 0:53 ` Daniel Brockman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2005-06-15 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: thomas.widmann, saint, emacs-devel
"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
> As written, the definition misleads people into thinking that Emacs
> falls into the same category as VI or Notepad.
emacs seeps into every nook and cranny, first explicitly changing named
bits locally, then meta-bits locally, then any bits outside of itself
anywhere, then any bits including itself, then finally the perception of
all those bits by its users, whether or not any external change is
actually involved.
people who don't understand this initially do so eventually, although
they may not understand their understanding.
every motion achieves change (surprisingly :-).
thi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-15 0:00 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
@ 2005-06-15 0:53 ` Daniel Brockman
2005-06-15 22:13 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Brockman @ 2005-06-15 0:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnu.org> writes:
> "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
>
>> As written, the definition misleads people into thinking that Emacs
>> falls into the same category as VI or Notepad.
>
> emacs seeps into every nook and cranny, first explicitly changing
> named bits locally, then meta-bits locally, then any bits outside of
> itself anywhere, then any bits including itself,
I'm with you on all these...
> then finally the perception of all those bits by its users, whether
> or not any external change is actually involved.
...but you've lost me here. Are you saying that Emacs at some point
becomes the lens through which we percieve every part of reality,
including (and not limited to) Emacs itself?
> people who don't understand this initially do so eventually,
> although they may not understand their understanding.
Will we at least know as soon enough we understand?
> every motion achieves change (surprisingly :-).
You've lost me again. Are you talking about Emacs development,
developer health, that weird Japanese game, or the second law
of thermodynamics?
--
Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-14 13:10 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-14 15:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
@ 2005-06-15 18:34 ` Kevin Rodgers
2005-06-15 21:54 ` foo experimental account
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Rodgers @ 2005-06-15 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
Robert J. Chassell wrote:
> It is simpler and shorter to say that Emacs is an integrating
> environment, like a command line interface or a graphic user
> interface. Emacs is a virtual lisp machine.
Emacs can be an integrating environment, and it does have both graphical
and command line interfaces. But it is definitely a text editor.
The Emacs manual has the correct definition, which the dictionary should
paraphrase:
GNU Emacs [is] the GNU incarnation of the advanced,
self-documenting, customizable, extensible real-time display
editor.
(Shouldn't "incarnation" be "implementation"?)
And the manual explains each of those terms (see esp. "advanced" and
"extensible"):
Emacs is a "display" editor because normally the text being
edited is visible on the screen and is updated automatically as
you type your commands.
It [is] a "real-time" editor because the display is updated very
frequently, usually after each character or pair of characters
you type.
Emacs [is] advanced because it provides facilities that go
beyond simple insertion and deletion: controlling subprocesses;
automatic indentation of programs; viewing two or more files at
once; editing formatted text; and dealing in terms of
characters, words, lines, sentences, paragraphs, and pages, as
well as expressions and comments in several different
programming languages.
"Self-documenting" means that at any time you can type a special
character, `Control-h', to find out what your options are.
"Customizable" means that you can change the definitions of
Emacs commands in little ways.
"Extensible" means that you can go beyond simple customization
and write entirely new commands, programs in the Lisp language
to be run by Emacs's own Lisp interpreter.
--
Kevin Rodgers
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-15 18:34 ` Kevin Rodgers
@ 2005-06-15 21:54 ` foo experimental account
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: foo experimental account @ 2005-06-15 21:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
When you see a `login' prompt, you can start with Emacs just as you
can start with BASH or X. In fact, I am writing this from such an
Emacs, user `foo', not from an instance of Emacs running in X under
user `bob' as you might guess from my Reply-to line and signature.
Kevin Rodgers writes,
Emacs can be an integrating environment, and it does have both
graphical and command line interfaces. But it is definitely a
text editor.
There is no doubt Emacs can be an integrating environment. Similarly,
BASH can be an integrating environment. Although it lacks a graphical
interface, with its libraries, for example those for ed or vi, it also
is definitely a text editor.
Indeed, no one wants an integrating user environment that lacks some
way of editing text, moving files, evoking interpreted commands, and
evoking commands written in compiled languages.
The Emacs manual has the correct definition ...
Why do you think it has the correct definition? After all, RMS said
that moving files is a form of editing. Indeed, I agree, such actions
are a form of editing. But few speak that way. Most people speak of
renaming a file as different from changing a word within a file.
And while the Emacs manual has room to define each of its terms, such
as `advanced', a dictionary entry does not.
I like thi's comment:
emacs seeps into every nook and cranny, ... explicitly changing
... the perception of all those bits by its users ...
people who don't understand this initially do so eventually ...
but the change takes time.
A dictionary entry has little space and its readers little time.
Certainly, as Nic Ferrier said, we are in religious territory when we
argue over what makes for a good dictionary entry for people who know
nothing of Emacs.
But that does not mean religious arguments are irrelevant. After all,
one argument in the US is whether self-replicating entities have the
capacity to make changes when replicating, and the implications of
that, or whether their replication produces entities that must be
similar (and implications). If you conclude the latter, you can
safely cut your budget for research on the growth of drug resistance
among germs. The argument over Emacs' definition in a dictionary
entry is less significant.
But it is not completely insignificant. The grammar in a command line
interface like BASH is different from the grammar in a graphical user
interface. Currently, those two environments provide the two most
commonly perceived grammars. (I mean grammar here as a linguist does,
as a way of structuring representations.)
The grammar of a virtual lisp machine is different. (Not hugely
different, but different enough.) That is what this argument is
about: what grammars should people commonly perceive as being
suitable for integrated environments, for what can come up when they
type their account name and password to a login prompt?
--
Robert J. Chassell
bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary
2005-06-15 0:53 ` Daniel Brockman
@ 2005-06-15 22:13 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2005-06-15 22:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se> writes:
> Will we at least know as soon enough we understand?
to know what you know: switch-to-buffer.
to know what you understand: C-h v.
to understand what you know: C-h f.
to understand what you understand: M-x dired RET ~/src/emacs/ RET.
> You've lost me again. Are you talking about Emacs development,
> developer health, that weird Japanese game, or the second law
> of thermodynamics?
yes, depending on the contents of your ~/.emacs (or equivalent :-).
thi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-06-15 22:13 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2005-06-14 0:00 [comp.emacs] "Emacs" defined in Collins English Dictionary Miles Bader
2005-06-14 12:18 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-14 12:56 ` Nic Ferrier
2005-06-14 13:40 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-14 13:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2005-06-14 13:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
2005-06-14 13:35 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2005-06-14 13:10 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-14 15:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-06-14 19:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-14 22:49 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-06-15 0:00 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-06-15 0:53 ` Daniel Brockman
2005-06-15 22:13 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-06-14 19:52 ` Nic Ferrier
2005-06-15 18:34 ` Kevin Rodgers
2005-06-15 21:54 ` foo experimental account
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