From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 06:45:50 +0300 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1146368777 12096 80.91.229.2 (30 Apr 2006 03:46:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:46:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 30 05:46:16 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fa2sp-0007dO-Lj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:46:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fa2sp-000484-75 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:46:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fa2se-00047o-3v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:45:56 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fa2sc-00047b-Au for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:45:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fa2sc-00047Y-2n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:45:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.114.186.66] (helo=romy.inter.net.il) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fa2w7-0000X3-5B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:49:31 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-31-133.inter.net.il [80.230.31.133]) by romy.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3-GA) with ESMTP id EBS10719 (AUTH halo1); Sun, 30 Apr 2006 06:45:49 +0300 (IDT) Original-To: "Drew Adams" In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:53639 Archived-At: > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:33:20 -0700 > > Y'know, I don't remember ever doing anything special to get ange-ftp to > work. IIRC, I picked up vanilla Emacs and immediately accessed remote files. > Maybe I'm forgetting something, but it can't have been too difficult. What you are forgetting is how long it took until ange-ftp began to support Windows seamlessly. At some point, we were even distributing an alternative ftp client, to work around bugs in the Microsoft version. > We're always talking about making things easier for newbies to use Emacs. > Well, if we expect Windows users to pick Emacs up and use it out of the box, > and if we want them to use Emacs to access remote files, and if tramp is the > default way to do that now, then I suspect we're going to be disappointed in > our expectations. Many Windows users will never experience using Emacs to > access remote files - that's my guess. And that's too bad - this Emacs > feature is much more important than most of the minutia we spend time > discussing in our attempts to make things friendlier for Emacs newbies > (menus, toolbars, fringe,...). I doubt that many Windows users even consider a prospect of accessing remote files. But that's not an argument to avoid fixing this feature on Windows, it's just that I don't think exaggerating its importance is really required to convince us. > Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see good things that work well stop > working in the name of progress. On n'arrete pas le progres... It's not useful to rant in this case. Unless Tramp developers start testing Tramp on Windows, they are under no obligation to fix Windows problems. Someone has to volunteer and do the job. So either become that person (which is the Free Software way of doing TRT), or wait until someone else does.