grokking char encodings

grokking char encodings

[rustom]

There is this page:
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-custom-agenda-commands.php
which when I print under Firefox3 prints some spaces as unicode boxes:
in particular the ones in
<pre class="example">

Now this is not directly relevant to emacs except that when I open the
page under emacs (on a win XP box) the mode line shows
-1(Unix)....
but the file shows ^M at EOLs.
I am trying to understand what this means as a char encoding...
Can someone throw some light?
My own understanding is that both emacs and FF3 are being confused by
something... What?

Re: grokking char encodings

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: rustom <rustompmody@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:48 -0800 (PST)
> 
> There is this page:
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-custom-agenda-commands.php
> which when I print under Firefox3 prints some spaces as unicode boxes:
> in particular the ones in
> <pre class="example">

I cannot reproduce this.  How did you download this page to your disk?
I used a Windows port of the wget command.  I see only ASCII blanks in
the file.

> Now this is not directly relevant to emacs except that when I open the
> page under emacs (on a win XP box) the mode line shows
> -1(Unix)....
> but the file shows ^M at EOLs.

Can't reproduce this, either.  I see "(Unix)", but no stray ^M
characters anywhere in sight.

What you see means that the EOL format of the file is inconsistent:
some lines have the DOS CR-LF pair, others plain Unix-style LF
characters at the end of the line.

Or maybe it has something to do with your customizations; does the
same problem happen in "emacs -Q"?

> I am trying to understand what this means as a char encoding...

"1" means it's Latin-1, "(Unix)" means that it has Unix-style EOL
format.

> Can someone throw some light?
> My own understanding is that both emacs and FF3 are being confused by
> something... What?

I cannot say, until I'm able to reproduce the problem on my machine.

What version of Emacs do you use, btw?

Re: grokking char encodings

[rustom]

On Jan 30, 2:58 pm, Eli Zaretskii <e...@gnu.org> wrote:
> > From: rustom <rustompm...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:48 -0800 (PST)
>
> > There is this page:
> >http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-custom-agenda-commands.php
> > which when I print under Firefox3 prints some spaces as unicode boxes:
> > in particular the ones in
> > <pre class="example">
>
> I cannot reproduce this.  How did you download this page to your disk?
> I used a Windows port of the wget command.  I see only ASCII blanks in
> the file.
I browsed it in firefox (version 3.0.5).
When I save it as web-page  complete I get this behavior
When I save it as web-page html only it behaves well -- no unicode
boxes on printing, no ^Ms in emacs but it is css-free printing as far
as I can see
>
> > Now this is not directly relevant to emacs except that when I open the
> > page under emacs (on a win XP box) the mode line shows
> > -1(Unix)....
> > but the file shows ^M at EOLs.
>
> Can't reproduce this, either.  I see "(Unix)", but no stray ^M
> characters anywhere in sight.
>
> What you see means that the EOL format of the file is inconsistent:
> some lines have the DOS CR-LF pair, others plain Unix-style LF
> characters at the end of the line.
>
> Or maybe it has something to do with your customizations; does the
> same problem happen in "emacs -Q"?

Same behavior

>
> > I am trying to understand what this means as a char encoding...
>
> "1" means it's Latin-1, "(Unix)" means that it has Unix-style EOL
> format.
>
> > Can someone throw some light?
> > My own understanding is that both emacs and FF3 are being confused by
> > something... What?
>
> I cannot say, until I'm able to reproduce the problem on my machine.
>
> What version of Emacs do you use, btw?

emacs-version shows 22.1.1 on windows XP service pack 2

Re: grokking char encodings

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: rustom <rustompmody@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 00:16:19 -0800 (PST)
> 
> I browsed it in firefox (version 3.0.5).
> When I save it as web-page  complete I get this behavior
> When I save it as web-page html only it behaves well -- no unicode
> boxes on printing, no ^Ms in emacs but it is css-free printing as far
> as I can see

With Firefox 2.0.0.20, I don't see any empty boxes, but I do see the
^M characters.  This happens because the very first line of the file
written by Firefix has a Unix-style EOL: a single LF character, while
the rest of the lines end with DOS-style CR-LF pair.

> emacs-version shows 22.1.1 on windows XP service pack 2

Put cursor on one of the empty boxes and type "C-u C-x =".  Emacs will
pop a buffer describing the character it sees at that point.  Post
that here, and maybe I or someone else could explain that to you.

Re: grokking char encodings

[rustom]

On Feb 3, 1:53 am, Eli Zaretskii <e...@gnu.org> wrote:
> > From: rustom <rustompm...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 00:16:19 -0800 (PST)
>
> > I browsed it in firefox (version 3.0.5).
> > When I save it as web-page  complete I get this behavior
> > When I save it as web-page html only it behaves well -- no unicode
> > boxes on printing, no ^Ms in emacs but it is css-free printing as far
> > as I can see
>
> With Firefox 2.0.0.20, I don't see any empty boxes, but I do see the
> ^M characters.  This happens because the very first line of the file
> written by Firefix has a Unix-style EOL: a single LF character, while
> the rest of the lines end with DOS-style CR-LF pair.
>
> > emacs-version shows 22.1.1 on windows XP service pack 2
>

> Put cursor on one of the empty boxes and type "C-u C-x =".  Emacs will
> pop a buffer describing the character it sees at that point.  Post
> that here, and maybe I or someone else could explain that to you.
Heres the output (seems like a space to me :-)


  character: SPC (32, #o40, #x20, U+0020)
    charset: ascii (ASCII (ISO646 IRV))
 code point: #x20
     syntax:   	which means: whitespace
   category: a:ASCII graphic characters 32-126 (ISO646 IRV:1983[4/0])
l:Latin
buffer code: #x20
  file code: #x20 (encoded by coding system iso-latin-1-unix)
    display: by this font (glyph code)
     -outline-Courier New-normal-r-normal-normal-13-97-96-96-c-*-
iso8859-1 (#x20)

There are text properties here:
  fontified            t

--------------------------------------
Note that in my diagnosis emacs is slightly confused
firefox is more confused.
emacs' confusion is the ^Ms at EOLs
ff shows the file normally in normal browse mode
shows it funny in print preview mode (the characters seem to run into
each other)
and prints unicode boxes only in actual (hardcopy) printing

Anyhow this seems to be a moving target.  The html/css/js seem to be
under intensive development